Viceland - ALL YOUR HEROES ARE DYING

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ALL YOUR HEROES ARE DYING

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PARENT KILLERS

THE VICE GUIDE TO KILLING YOUR PARENTS

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The Vice Guide to Killing Your Parents:
• PART 2
• PART 3
• PART 4

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REGULARS:

DOs & DON'Ts

BACK ISSUES

He was many things … a First Amendment warrior, a womanizer, a hipster and a junkie … but the one thing a comedian is supposed to be—funny—he wasn’t. “Take away the right to say ‘fuck,’ ” came one of Lenny Bruce’s most famously self-serving lines, “and you take way the right to say, ‘fuck the government.’ ” Thanks, Lenny. We’re now allowed to say “fuck” in certain special circumstances. But the government fucked you harder. You turned rat on your drug-dealing friends, and it’s safe to assume your morphine overdose in 1966 was a hot shot delivered as street vengeance.

“The white race is the cancer of human history,” wrote the ostensibly white Ms. Sontag.
A hypocritical rad-chic darling who derided capitalism while gorging on huge foundation grants, she thought Against Interpretation was a catchy book title. Lost in metaphors, she spouted nonsense such as, “If there were no speaking or writing, there would be no truth about anything.” Wrong—truth existed long before postmodern writers came along. And if you’d never likened white Americans to cancer, you still would have been a white American who died from cancer.

Inhabiting a make-believe world with children into his 70s and employing a character named Mr. McFeely (his middle name) to do it, one might be tempted to suggest pedophilic undertones in Fred “Mister” Rogers’s oeuvre. After all, normal heterosexual adult men don’t want to have anything to do with kids, and when you start throwing hand puppets into the mix, it seems like something from the McMartin preschool case. But I’ll take the high road. Fred Rogers’s chief crime is that it was always a beautiful day in the neighborhood and he liked you just the way you are.

Though he sang of impoverishment and repatriation to Mama Africa, Bob Marley’s father was a relatively affluent pasty-white plantation overseer and Navy officer. And though several reggae artists released music far superior to anything Marley ever squeezed from his dreads, he has achieved mythic status mainly due to his belief in Rastafarianism, one of the stupidest religions ever concocted. When skin cancer was discovered on his big toe, he declined life-saving amputation because his religion “don’t allow a mon ta be dismantled.” The cancer quickly spread to his brain, stomach, and lungs. Haile Selassie? Highly retarded.

The Beatles were a great rock ’n’ roll band except they couldn’t sing, play their instruments, or keep a beat. Despite claims of being a “working-class hero” after he’d salted away millions, and in spite of his prophet-of-peace shtick even though he was an overweening sourpuss who couldn’t even get along with his bandmates or wives, this sanctimonious junkie is still embraced as a beacon of childlike truth-seeking. He was shot dead by precisely the sort of true believer his massive ego helped spawn. His murderer, Mark David Chapman, reportedly used to lead schoolchildren in singing a parody of his hero’s signature song: “Imagine there’s no John Lennon.” It wasn’t hard to do.

The Weather Underground facilitated Leary’s escape from prison after a weed bust in the early 1970s. Upon his recapture, Leary spun around and ratted on his accomplices in order to receive a reduced sentence. “I would prefer to work constructively and collaboratively with intelligence and law enforcement people who are willing to forget the past,” came the frightened-into-complicity statement of the snowy-haired Brain Yeti who encouraged us to “question authority.” The fact that he turned snitch on people who tried to help him forces me to question his authority to tell anyone to question authority.

If we pardoned the nine-hour jam sessions that plodded along as aimlessly as a salamander crawling over rocks after being brain-damaged by a hiker’s boot, and set aside the idea that his main contribution to American culture was persuading hordes of youth to swallow drugs, form drum circles, and then publicly flaunt an inability to dance, and passed over the fact that Captain Trip’s life ended with a fatal heart attack at a rehab center, we as a society must never forgive nor forget the fact that he looked like an old woman’s vagina. He was also offensive because the “going on tour” thing sucked in losers from our generation and ended up living way longer than it should have. Still, the youngsters grow their hair, refuse to shower, and beat bongos while dancing in circles, so we haven't fully killed him.

An insanely rich warmonger considered a saint for pledging to fight poverty and war. His family’s wealth was built on organized crime, but the second his shadowy cronies helped him get elected, he set his brother Bobby loose to try and destroy them. His biggest accomplishments in office were fucking Marilyn Monroe and being shot to death. Unbeknownst to most, JFK was also a speed freak whose fearless Cold War “brinksmanship” was actually dangerously apocalyptic tweaksmanship—while Kennedy was botching the Bay of Pigs invasion and sweating through the Cuban Missile Crisis, his physician, Max “Dr. Feelgood” Jacobsen, was shooting him up to the eyeballs with pharmaceutical-grade amphetamines.

More like Jackass Kerouac. Ten times more fag than either Ginsberg or Burroughs and only one-tenth the writer. His unbearably effusive “masterpiece” On the Road is the literary equivalent of the liquor-induced internal hemorrhage that cut him down at age 47—a sloppy cranial menstrual cycle in severe need of an editorial tampon. The main character’s name is Sal Paradise—how stupid is that? Written while “on the speed,” On the Road may have inspired countless “stream-of-consciousness” imitations, but the “stream” was the rank piss of a hopeless alcoholic, and the “consciousness” was that of a homophobic cocksucker who went on collegiate gay-bashing jaunts with jock friends before bedding dozens of men.

Cody gained his fame as the “crying Indian” in the 1970s “Keep America Beautiful” campaign. In the most watched public service announcement in U.S. TV history, we watched a teardrop snake down his craggy, presumably Native American visage after motorists chucked a bag of garbage near his feet. But although he claimed to be Cherokee, offered supplications to the “Great Spirit,” and was America’s Token Indian for decades, he was an Italian poseur born “Espera DeCorti.” His TV teardrop wasn’t even real—it was a li’l squib of glycerine. Cody was to Native Americans what wiggers would become to blacks—a patronizing, insulting attempt to vampirize someone’s culture without having endured any of the attendant suffering.

After witnessing the daily terror faced by black Mississippi sharecroppers whom he’d helped register to vote in 1964, Savio returned to the white-bread safety of his Berkeley campus and fancied himself facing the SAME SORT OF OPPRESSION when university officials forbade him from raising political funds on campus property. Savio spewed some holy drivel about throwing your bodies against the evil machine to make its wheels stop. He pioneered the “sit-in” and led students in choruses of “We Shall Overcome.” He later admitted his antics were partly designed to impress his girlfriend. The father of the Free Speech Movement died while performing some Basic Couch Movement in 1996—he suffered a coronary trying to hoist some furniture.

Rubin typified 1960s radicals in that he grew up in an affluent neighborhood and for this reason deemed himself fit to speak for the downtrodden. The quintessential slummer, he was the smelliest, most egotistical and annoying manifestation of this loathsome breed. Even more grating was his shameless metamorphosis from yippie to yuppie—he switched breezily from 1960s Amerikan-nightmare pig-baiter to 1980s American-dream venture capitalist. At least his yippie friend Abbie Hoffman never sold out and had the good sense to kill himself. In 1994, Jerry Rubin was struck dead by a car while jaywalking. Most obituaries needlessly point out the fact that he was jaywalking—that’s how much of an asshole people thought he was.

JIM GOAD

Comments:

Subject: "The Universe" eh?
Date: Jan 07 2008 11:55:51 PM
Author: Ellipses

How tiring and cliche your insults are. Great handle, by the way. NOT!

In this great universe, you are but floating space shit orbiting a lifeless planet.

Jim Goad goads again.

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Subject: leary
Date: May 16 2007 01:37:57 PM
Author: yep

is a bunch of hot dirty diapers..a steamin' pile

Subject: off
Date: May 13 2007 09:06:34 PM
Author: bugger

"Susan Sontag was a jewess, not white. "
hebraism is a religion, not a race.

Subject: this is pretty good
Date: May 13 2007 11:49:06 AM
Author: .

The only one I disagree with is the one about Kerouac. And BTW he was a Beat, not a hippie or even a boomer. Maybe a Boomer hero.

Susan Sontag was a jewess, not white. Jews love to hate white people in order to play the victim role and tear down western civilization, except when they act white to elevate themselves above the schvartzes.

Subject: get a life
Date: Feb 16 2007 03:10:30 PM
Author: gawrsh

geez, who meets your impossible ideals?

Subject: Attention Jim Goad:
Date: Feb 13 2007 07:35:15 PM
Author: The Universe

Your attacks on half of these people reek of desperation and expose you as a petty and jaded little man. please do not waste our time further with your tired smear-campaigns . We would advise you to go and eat a bowl of dicks with crushed mandrax and milk, you sad and tired vulture... and then maybe..all this pain will go away.

Regards,

The Universe

Subject: fuck john lennon
Date: May 23 2006 06:31:15 PM
Author: luke

and fuck paul mccartney too. it's obvious that george was the talent. think about it...what was the only good post-beatles solo album by any of them? all things must pass. george was way more genuine about spirituality than john or paul. his slide playing is fucking siiick too.

Subject: robert nesta marley
Date: Mar 24 2006 05:17:35 AM
Author: steven marley

yo blood clot ya fi say that other reggea people make better tunes dan bob but how come he a go be in the hall of fame and the greatest reggae artist in the world check your facts prick yes he half white or half black but he not step on black man side nor the white man side the cancer he get is only contracted in white people not the black man desies but he was half white he aceved more in is life than you will in yours and he is still 20 odd years after death still doing more than you will ever and the truth is he could of stole your mum from ya dad or your wife from you so blood clot i take your comments as da vain pimpass paradise see coke was the thing that once you first try once a blue moon once a blue sky now u wondering who else want to go by you have no money but want to get high so u write a collum on shit the best part of you dripped down the side of ya dads leg your brains

Subject: dung beatle
Date: Feb 07 2006 12:04:44 PM
Author: ground round

goad's claim that the beatles could not play musical instruments or sing is entirely indefensible.

Subject: bob marley
Date: Dec 27 2005 11:40:36 PM
Author: egrghghgh

umm..well just because he didnt want to remove hid toe thta means he shoujld be respected for keeping to his religion;;

Subject: Mine
Date: Dec 04 2005 12:15:39 AM
Author: Aaron

mine:

hunter s. thompson
helmut newton
guy bourdin

Subject: Back in the spring....
Date: Nov 11 2005 07:26:17 PM
Author: Whirlwind

And don't forget,one the biggest,most hated,so-called "heroes",of the last 15 years croaked,back in the spring - I speak of Johnnie "Mistuh John-nay" Cochrane.A shitty career(Just ask Vincent Bugliosi),got a gift from Satan himself,and got,in OJ The Killuh's own words:"Absolutely,positively,100%" lucky as any black racist ever got,when A)He got a 98% black jury as racist as he is,B) the entire farce was on TV,allowing him,and his devil team to put on a show for the cameras,and drag the trial on and on,as sadisticallyand hatefully, as they wanted,and C)Got a judge had nothing even close to resembling a spine.

The pathologically lying shit,constantly,and not so subtly,threatened to unleash a race riot,if he didn't get his way - Who can forget,after one of the few bad days for his team,he stated,melodramatically(And totally unconvincingly,as blacks are such shitty actors) to the TV cameras:"Stay cahm,Los Angeles....Stay Cahm"

And now,like Huey Newton,George Jackson,Stokely Carmichael,Khalid Muhammad,Tupac Shakur,MLK,Elijah Muhammad,and other asshole racist blacks before him,he is frying like bacon in a skillet.

Subject: And now....Rosa! #2
Date: Nov 02 2005 01:56:19 PM
Author: Duke

No relation to David,unfortunately.

She was also a secretary/member of her local NAACP.That infamously anti-White/American group,colaborated with the CPUSA to set the whole thing up.

Anyway,the funerals and services have already been going on WAY too long.I won't be surprised,if they take the corpse on tour,to other black racist hot spots,like Harlem,Brooklyn,Atlanta,New Orleans,Compton,Oakland,Berkeley,Newark,Secaucus,Philadelphi
a,South
Side and Cabrini Green,Chicago,Memphis,among others.

Subject: woah...duke.
Date: Oct 26 2005 03:24:39 PM
Author: jose

Is that David Duke? Ridiculous post but kudos on having the courage to speak out on the epidemic of racially motivated bus r*pes. It makes me sick to think of all the times I've had to sit there paralyzed by fear while those white-haters have their way with our women. Re-segregating might work but those animals would have to be caged in.

Subject: And now....Rosa!
Date: Oct 26 2005 12:30:43 PM
Author: Duke

Another phony civili rights "icon" finally croaks.

Had affiliations with the Communist Party USA,and the CPUSA planned and orchestrated the entire bus "incident" that made her the media and snivel rights (secular)God,knowing full well what would happen - the entire media portrait of her in the incident was a total lie;she was not tiiiiirrreed or wooooorrrrrnn oooouuuuuuutt after a loooooong hard day's work,and she did not get up from her seat,that she wasn't supposed to be in because she was sooooooo exhausted from a looooong hard day.She was ACTING.She went to such a seat DELIBERATELY,because it was PLANNED THAT WAY by her CP friends!!!!

And what did her "heroic" act really and truly lead to,in the long run?Buses with Black racists assaulting,robbing and raping innocent Whites and all sorts of other uncivilized and thug behavior - you know,what the left euphemizes/doublespeaks as "Progress".

But don't expect TV "news",papers,or any areas of the media to mention these Unpleasant Truths,instead to just fall in lock(goose)-step with the Ministry of Truth line,and paint her with more glowing,BS/double speak terms of praise,as "Icon","equality","pioneer",&q
uot;martyr","one
of the great Americans","freedom fighter","symbol",etc,etc - enough euphemisms to kill and elephant.

Subject: what 'bout abraham lincoln?
Date: Oct 23 2005 07:26:18 PM
Author: jonas salk

i hurd that motherfucker wasn't even born in a logge cabin.

Subject: john lennon
Date: Oct 22 2005 08:11:24 PM
Author: fallenempire2000

that meatmen song one down three to go was pretty fucking hilarious. Did I mention that I want to ejaculate on Chelsea Clinton's buck teeth. I would do that bitch in a second. Fuck yoko ono and fuck the beatles.

Subject: Roxy
Date: Oct 22 2005 03:03:13 PM
Author: Recodo

LoL

Subject: Petro
Date: Oct 22 2005 02:54:48 PM
Author: Roxy

Awww mind your own business...I did post about the article...

Subject: Preschool arguments
Date: Oct 22 2005 01:06:18 AM
Author: Petro

Look at you two...crb and Roxy. One insult after another...Each less and less creative than the last. It's quite obvious neither are going to back down, and so this article is going to get more and more full of pointless comments.
All crb wants to say is Roxy is retarded...And Roxy just claims people of being insane and/or hypocritical.
And I really find it quite useless to say crb and Cyru are the same people when crb merely defends Cyru. Roxy and steve caputi seem to be doing the same thing. Really.
I'll just pop in and say:
STFU, all of you.
Stop the bickering and get back to the article.
It seems that was attempted, yet Roxy wanted the last word.
Exactly my point... Childish squabbles.
Leave this exactly where it be and move on with your lives.

Subject: crb
Date: Oct 21 2005 07:27:25 PM
Author: Roxy

I have "officially been owned?" Please, really, you have to stop with attempted hood slang...you come off like Bryant Gumbel.

That aside, you reveal yourself to be the same bitter (possibly schizophrenic) person with every bit of hatred you spew. If all you can do is call me stupid, feel free-- after all, your opinion is nothing more than a shit stain on the panties of life-- but hopefully having your attention directed at me will distract you from making inane comments about the article (you know, like flashing a shiny new coin in a retard's line of vision to keep him from falling off a sidewalk into oncoming traffic)...but probably not. No, you'll wander into traffic, sans crash helmet, time and time again. Why? Because such is the cruel joke that is your cerebral destiny.

Subject: Leary...Rat?
Date: Oct 21 2005 06:53:47 PM
Author: Kenny H.

This took two minutes:

http://home.dti.net/lawserv/leary.html

" But after a few months out of public view, Leary comes into the open as a government informant. Under the code-name CHARLIE THRUSH, he turns State's evidence against the Weather Underground. Freed from prison, he is taken into custody for fear that radical revolutionaries have marked him for execution. His former colleagues in the movement form a group calling itself People Investigating Leary's Lies (PILL). Abbie Hoffmann declares that "Timothy Leary is a name worse than Benedict Arnold." Allen Ginsburg says that Leary is "like Zabbath Zvi, false Messiah, accepted by millions of Jews centuries ago."

If his "friends" in the Weather Underground permitted him to rat, why did he fear for his life at their hands? Why did "friends" such as Abbie Hoffman and Allen Ginsburg condemn him? Why was "People Investigating Leary's Lies" formed?

Have a bad acid trip tonight, OK?

Subject: Rat Until Proven Otherwise
Date: Oct 21 2005 06:46:20 PM
Author: Cheese-Sniffer

If it took you only four minutes to research it, why was it too difficult to take the extra fifteen seconds to provide some links?

Subject: Leary
Date: Oct 21 2005 06:20:24 PM
Author: docschwop

Leary was given permission by his friends to rat on them. Also he gave it in such a way as to make nothing stick.

I just re-researched this. It took me approximately 4 minutes to find this out by searching the internet. Obviously you morons have your heads up your asses.

Please have a nice day.

Subject: Whoa...how did you make it this far?
Date: Oct 21 2005 02:32:25 PM
Author: crb

I am not the same person as cyru. Is it that hard for you to accept the fact that more than one person thinks you're mentally challenged? Congratulations dumbass you have now been officially owned by me now too. Go ahead and reply to this cause I promise I will read it and pity you afterwards as well as get a good laugh out of it... you crack me up! (because you think you are intelligent, I thought I would point that out to you since the reasoning behind my amusement is like most things - over your head.)

Subject: Beating ones wife.
Date: Oct 21 2005 04:43:25 AM
Author: Gaysayers

That scertainly is a pickle.....

Subject: Naysayers
Date: Oct 21 2005 04:39:09 AM
Author: Yaysayers

If one does not beat ones wife whom shall?

Subject: Racist piece of shit, wifebeater!
Date: Oct 21 2005 04:20:00 AM
Author: Naysayers

Racist piece of shit, wifebeater!

Subject: y'all be dolemite 'n' shit
Date: Oct 20 2005 09:20:34 PM
Author: steve caputi

oooh..."owned"! PIMP TALK, G!

first off, "cryu" or "cyru" comes on with hostility defending some mentally impaired girl's inherently contradictory defense of john lennon in baby-poo outrage over an article that said john lennon was a hostile person who couldn't get along with anyone but pretended he was for peace...and you think that person had a point of any kind to make, much less "owned" anyone?

but since you, too, are obviously too stunted to immediately apprehend where the hypocrisy lies—other than the already explained idea that only a drooling mongoloid would defend a hostile "peacemaker" with hostility in the name of peace—it's that the idiot ridiculed "Roxy" on the internet for ridiculing people on the internet.

Subject: crb/cryu
Date: Oct 20 2005 08:22:20 PM
Author: Roxy

You said you wouldn't respond and you did. That makes you a liar.

And you said this:

"...Tell me Roxy, do you have a life? You seem to spend a lot of time bashing peoples opinions over the net."

I can guarantee you spend a lot more time on this sort of thing than I do and seem to be rather fond of "bashing opinions over the internet." That makes you a hypocrite.

Now are you going to pretend that you're not the same person who posted both of these things while indicating (incorrectly of course) that I'm a retard? I predict that you'll be back...

Subject: Roxy...you're a retard
Date: Oct 20 2005 07:11:00 PM
Author: crb

What exactly makes cryu a hypocrite? Or a liar for that matter? I read their comments and yours and I still don't get it. I think cyru fucking owned you and calling them a liar and a hypocrite was the best you could do? You shouldn't even have replied and there is 2 reasons why. First of all your sorry retaliation only made cyru own you harder, and secondly, at the end of the post it stated that they weren't going to respond. Fuck man, you are really dumb... or at least you lead people to believe that.

Subject: fuck this shite
Date: Oct 20 2005 08:07:44 AM
Author: name

fuck it, i'd rather go on tour and not shower than listen to people love themselves and their opinions any day. tour's rough, mon; no money, no good food, and those hippies are fucking crazy, all wantin to blow lsd crystals in yer face and send you to the asylum if you complain about the size of yer lid.
shit, who cares what some short, racist whose pissed that he aint black with a bigger dick says? Bob Marley wouldn't even bat an eye. He was a guitar player. Whats better than that, mon?

Subject: Heidi
Date: Oct 20 2005 03:42:55 AM
Author: Roxy

Seriously, Heidi, up the meds.

Subject: left and right
Date: Oct 20 2005 03:07:29 AM
Author: steve caputi

left vs. right...

the biggest phony conspiracy theory of all time.

we live on a globe, not a pancake.

Subject: cyru
Date: Oct 20 2005 01:25:02 AM
Author: Roxy

"I shant be reading it."

...your declaration assures me that you most certainly will tune in to read my response...so let me write it again: Hypocrite. And let me add: Liar.

Subject: cyru
Date: Oct 20 2005 01:21:16 AM
Author: Roxy

Hypocrite.

Subject: Arch - Conservatives
Date: Oct 20 2005 12:38:45 AM
Author: Negrodamus

I can't think of a more cynical nihilist than Dick Cheney. That motherfucker certainly sees the big picture. Don't you think fascism is ultimately nihilistic? Maybe "right" is a better word than conservative since, apparantly, Jim's "bad boy" lifestyle prevents the description of his politics as conservative.

Subject: Kenny H.
Date: Oct 19 2005 09:23:44 PM
Author: Negrodamus

I concede, Kenny. "Supremist" is a near obsolete word meaning "someone who takes upon himself supreme authority". Not the same as a supremacist. I only meant by "uttered" that that's what the word sounds like when it's said aloud. Yikes, nice use of multiple sources to whip my ass.

Ok, I don't like Jim Goad. Neither does YAB. But I'm not YAB, pal. I'm not.

Subject: Kenny Ist Korrekt!
Date: Oct 19 2005 09:22:14 PM
Author: Adolf Hitler

He's right, kids. It's "supremacist."

Subject: Supremist or Supremacist?
Date: Oct 19 2005 04:38:51 PM
Author: Kenny H.

I said that "supremacist" was the preferred usage and would have let the matter drop, but since you tried to play smart and say "supremist" is what's "generally uttered," you continue to demonstrate an eagerness to be proven wrong.

Google:
"white supremacist" ... 755,000 hits
"white supremist" ... 29,400 hits

http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/errors.txt
Common Errors in English by Paul Brians
"A neo-Nazi is a white supremacist, not 'supremist.'"

http://www.mootgame.com/ballast/bal634.html
From "Moot, the World's Toughest Language Game"...
"Which believes that whites should be supreme: the white supremacist, the white supremist, or both?

"Answer: the white supremacist

"To advocate that a particular group be supreme is to be a supremacist.

The word supremist is not found in the Concise Oxford. "

Subject: Negrodamus say, "You Lie Again"
Date: Oct 19 2005 04:19:44 PM
Author: Kenny H.

Right. And everyone else fixates on his cowboy hat, tight jeans, and uses "Yee-Haw!" Sure. OK. Yup! Everyone else says, "Blah, blah, blah, the fact that you've blown my point to smithereens doesn't do one thing to change the bottom line that he's a bad person," etc. OKsireeebob! Sure, YAB didn't come on this thread initially with cowboy-hat comments under another name until he later admitted he was YAB. Yuppers!

Goad's analysis is consistently cynical, nihilistic, and always involved with the larger picture that people miss when they get wrapped up in moral campaigns. The only moral stance he ever takes is to attack hypocrisy and dishonesty—NOT a conservative viewpoint by a long shot.

The only thing he remotely shares with them is a disdain for liberals. But he has always shown a disdain for conservatives, too. The fact that you can only see the world in two flavors is your problem rather than his.

By the way..."redneck" is the racist slur here, nothing that Goad is saying. He wrote a whole book about it. And your stereotypical white racist doesn't spend much time touting the intellectual superiority of nonwhites.

Subject: Kenny H.
Date: Oct 19 2005 03:30:44 PM
Author: Negrodamus

I have not yet posted on this board...I'm afraid I don't know who you're conflating my identity with. "Supremist" is in the OED, if you care. Say the term "white supremist" and then "white supremacist" out loud. I think the former spelling is more faithful to the way the term is generally uttered.

Lifestyle bullshit does nothing to alter the fact that Goad is a big ole racist redneck. Other than some incongruent points about poor whites and blacks facing the same barriers, his analysis is consistently conservative.

Subject: even Goad knows satirical writing....
Date: Oct 19 2005 12:23:01 PM
Author: crb

Everyone seems to be getting so worked up about what Heidi wrote. I think you guys need to use that thing between your ears that you all claim to have. All she wanted to do was remind people that there are freaks out there and they could strike at any moment without warning, kinda like Mark David Chapman. As far as John Lennon being great.. he was, doesn't anyone remember everything he achieved for peace? And doesn't anyone know what satire is? You obviously don't so maybe go read something more your speed, cause I think you're are borderline retarded or already fully retarded, I'm not sure which. I do know you all took Heidi's comments at face value and for that you are kinda fucked. Oh yeah John Lennon 's cause WAS bigger than Jesus and that is why he's dead. Anyone who feels differently, just go thump your bible and you'll feel much better... promise. (that was satire again incase you didn't pick up on it)

Subject: Heidi David Chapman
Date: Oct 19 2005 09:18:00 AM
Author: John Lennon

Please, Heidi, stay away from me. And return your copy of "Catcher in the Rye" to the library—it's way overdue.

Subject: John Lennon—WIFEBEATER FOR PEACE!
Date: Oct 19 2005 08:51:09 AM
Author: Heidi Cloughless

STUPID ANGRY HEIDI WROTE: "John Lennon was a great man musically and otherwise"

OH, REALLY?

http://mikadosoc.ie/forum/archive.php/o_t__t_28718__john
/> -lennon-wife-beater.html />

"In excerpts published in The Sunday Times from her new book, John, about her former husband, Cynthia Lennon claims that the departed ex-Beatle had a violent temper:

"When I came out he was waiting with a dark look on his face. Before I could speak he raised his arm and hit me across the face, knocking my head into the pipes that ran down the wall behind me.

"Without a word he walked away, leaving me dazed, shaky and with a sore head. I could put up with his outbursts, the jealousy and possessiveness but not violence. I knew I had to end our relationship. "

Jim Goad, by contrast, never claimed to be for peace. He never posed as a "working-class hero" while banking millions daily. Therefore, dum-dum, he's a few notches above your slaughtered hero on ye olde truth and integrity scale.

Subject: Jah Save My Toe
Date: Oct 19 2005 08:24:15 AM
Author: Bob Marley

Hibbity Bibbity...Jah save my toe, mon...Jibbity Buhgibbity...hoodoo voodoo, we no like Babylon's evil doctors, mon, so I'm-a wave a spliff over my toe and let Jah Uprising heal me, mon. We will show dee world why we is dee chosen people, mon—get some chicken feathers and wave 'em over my toe, mon...

Jah? Hello—JAH?!?!

Oh, fuck, fuck FUCCCCKKKK! OK, I'm a CHRISTIAN! OPERATE ON ME! I WAS WRONG! AIN'T NO JAH! NO JAHHHH!

Subject: Bob Marley, Racial Exorcist
Date: Oct 19 2005 08:18:36 AM
Author: Steel Toe

Hey, stupid, Bob Marley WAS telling the white half of himself to go home when he told that blonde chick that Rasta was only for blacks—racial exorcism is a little-known fact about Rastafarianism. Just like wiggers do, you can actually expunge your whiteness by casting it into someone else's body and sending them back to Babylon.

It also works with roosters and, I think, Barbie dolls.

Subject: Give Fucking Peace A Fucking Chance
Date: Oct 19 2005 04:38:58 AM
Author: Heidi Cloughless

Fucking shit. Eat some shit cos you guys are fucked. Fuckin' fuck. Eat a piece of dookie my boots stomp into your fucking face and stick a cock in your ass you fucking douche, because I didn't fantasize about people sticking cocks in their ass or eating shit, and you're a fucking douche for thinking it. Someone's gonna kill you for saying this shit, and you'd fucking deserve it. Eat shit off the cock you stick in your ass. I'm as fucking mentally stable as Yoko Ono, you fucking shit-licking cockfucks. Give peace a chance, or I'll be back with more murder fantasies.

Subject: Bob Marley, the Half-White Racist
Date: Oct 19 2005 03:02:20 AM
Author: No Marley, No Cry

http://www.rastafaritimes.com/rasnews/viewnews.cgi?newsid101
2536000,21111,.html />
" I remember being at 56 Hope Road one day when Bob, Skill Cole and Seeko were speaking angrily to a blonde American teenager, telling her to leave the premises and go back home to America. The girl said she had come to Jamaica and to Bob Marley because she wanted ‘to become a Rasta’. Bob and his associates were telling her in strong terms that it was not possible for her to become a Rasta – it was a ‘movement of Black people, FOR Black people."

In that case, Bob should have told half of himself to go home.

What was it you self-abnegating vanilla jackholes were saying about "all oppressed peepels in dee world, mon?" Fuck you. He was a racist.

Subject: i fogot.....
Date: Oct 19 2005 02:11:51 AM
Author: Oh yea...

It is a proven fact that all Jamaicans are homosexuals and that ol Bob liked puffing the peter as much as the spliff..what do you think was holding those dreads together?. apologies to suburban rasta boy down the thread.

mon.

Subject: nigga ima bus you up
Date: Oct 19 2005 01:37:04 AM
Author: lamark

honky azz racist bich tryin to dis the great bob marley. and that indien that tried to het yall white peeps 2 stop littering. u alreedy stole there country now you gonna make a fun of them? bob marlet wood kill you white ass if he was here now. and my man is right dont call no jamacan a gfagit cuz the will shoot your ass. word. u r a racist who hates minortees and I think the backlash against this article was absofuckinlutely brilliant! Say what you want about Dr. goad he gets you whining cunts throawing Katrina sized tantrums every time.
Sieg Heil and Shalom my ace boon coon.

Subject: Heidi: dumb and angry...for PEACE!
Date: Oct 18 2005 08:02:03 PM
Author: Kenny H.

She says:
"Take that cock out of your mouth and shove it up your ass where it belongs."

Then she says:
"First of all, the piece I wrote said nothing about anal r@pe fantasies you douche,"

So if a hostile demand that someone gets a cock shoved up their ass and have shit stuffed in their mouth doesn't qualify as an anal-r*ape fantasy to you, what the fuck does? You're the type of irrational female that would be howling to the cops if someone said EXACTLY THE SAME THING TO YOU.

Subject: Bright Supremacy
Date: Oct 18 2005 05:28:30 PM
Author: Kenny H.

Jim Goad has always said he believes Asians and Jews are intellectually superior to whites, especially dumb whites pretending to be black who use terms such as "supremist" instead of the preferred "supremacist." So that makes it impossible for him to be classified as a white supremacist, no matter how hard you strain to stereotype him.

His lifestyle, drug use, scorn for religion, iconoclasm, and use of naughty words all disqualify him from conservatism.

So again, yab (the "negrodamus" fools no one when you keep rehashing old phrases and old arguments)—wrong...wrong...wrong.

Goad is a different breed entirely, made evident by the fact that your "criticisms" of him amount to nothing more than tossing outmoded stereotypes at him that don't apply. Pointing to a cowboy hat and tight jeans to summarize his political beliefs—just as you earlier assumed a fondness for C&W music is inherently racist—is as ignorant as pointing to a black male's saggy jeans and concluding that he sells crack or believes that whites were created by an evil scientist named Yacub.

Notice how the fool used to criticize Goad for being "rich," then when this is disproved, he resorts to criticizing him for working at a "low-paying" magazine. You have no argument, and the only constant is your outrage that Goad doesn't go away.

Subject: Goad away!
Date: Oct 18 2005 04:41:43 PM
Author: Negrodamus

Jim Goad is the official Redneck intellectual like Jeff Foxworthy is the official Redneck comedian. I peeped his website and dude is fond of cowboy hats, skin tight white tees and shit-kickin' boots. Yee-haw! Jim, you should apply to teach at the University of Calgary Poli-Sci department. Maybe you could end up advising the Conservative Party of Canada how to get away with white supremist policies that appeal to the common sense of Euroamerican peoples. You know you're brilliant, Jimmy. Leave off the low-paying magazine writing and jump into the fray.

Subject: Really...
Date: Oct 18 2005 04:08:25 PM
Author: Cyru

...Tell me Roxy, do you have a life? You seem to spend a lot of time bashing peoples opinions over the net. Which probably had more thought put into them than when your parents spawned you. Why don't you and Goad hook up? You'd be the perfect shit spewing team. You could spend ages saying pointless BS to people who sure as hell don't give a damn. And what's with the bashing of people who are already dead? "Oh, now that these people I've had a random dislike for are cold in their graves, I can finally grow some balls and start insulting them! Whoopy!"
Oh, and don't bother responding to this. I shant be reading it.

Subject: steve caputi/roxy
Date: Oct 18 2005 03:56:31 PM
Author: Heidi Clough

Okay, you guys are fucked. First of all, the piece I wrote said nothing about anal r@pe fantasies you douche, and secondly this comment area of the site is to post opinions about the article ( which I'm allowed to have ), not your opinions about peoples opinions. John Lennon was a great man musically and otherwise, sorry if I found it a little disgusting that Goad thought he (Lennon ) had any fault in his own death. You can both fuck off because I know from your comments that each of you are sucking his intellectually stimulating cock as I type this, and that in itself almost sickens me more than his ass-backwards article about shit he knows nothing about. Lastly I'm not a hypocrite for getting pissed off, just because I liked John Lennons' music which was about peace doesn't mean I have to be happy-go-lucky every fucking moment of my life. You guys can substitute Goad's name for your own and read my comment one more time. I hope you enjoyed this fuckers!

Subject: Oh Jimmy
Date: Oct 17 2005 07:52:43 PM
Author: Faceless Coward

Just like that annoying kid in middle school who just learned that he can argue down any figure of authority by directly contradicting their view-points, or gain attention by disagreeing with what everyone eles believes, ("Oh Really! Well I think America SHOULD be at war because the world has always survived on survival of the fittest!) Jim Goad is that meager light of immature intelligence with an inflated ego due to his upbringing around near non-intelligence. (I assume, since he is, sadly, more informed than most people.) Constantly breaking down and presenting only the negative or opposite of situations that are perceived to be positive or widely viewed one way, is using ignorance to fight ignorance which is ignorant. I do believe that he is not a racist. Just addicted to shocking people by attacking socially sacred issues with his sophomoric intellect. To be truthfull to Jim; when I was coming out of my typical ignorant mindframe I was the same as you. Eager for a shocked response from the status quo. But because Bob Marley refused to sever a toe infected with cancer doesn't make it good that he is dead. Save this rabid sensationalism for elementary school or political punditry.

Subject: Helloween
Date: Oct 16 2005 12:28:20 PM
Author: Frau Metalstein

Helloween is actually a "visionary" German metal band...quite funny really:

http://www.helloween.com/

Subject: HELLOWEEN
Date: Oct 16 2005 01:19:21 AM
Author: Shirley Wilkes Booth

Each time I have to hear "Do They Know It's Halloween?" again, I will EAT a candy bar intended for this season's trick-or-treaters.

Don't think I won't do it, either.

Ball's in your court, VICE.

Subject: best issue ever
Date: Oct 15 2005 04:27:46 PM
Author: sam

jim goads getting sassier and sassier

Subject: fdsa
Date: Oct 15 2005 10:58:31 AM
Author: Roxy

"It was a fight for all the poor, exploited and powerless."

I really don't think "Slave Driver" and "400 Years" were written for ALL of the poor, exploited, and powerless...okay? Tell me they're not just a smidge anti-white. I could cite others...

But while I'm at it, here are a few lyrics from "Stop That Train:"

"All my good life I've been a lonely man,
Teachin' my people who don't understand;
And even though I tried my best,
I still can't find no happiness.

I mean, stop it:
Stop that train: I'm leavin' - leavin', mm-hmm.
Stop that train: I'm leavin' - I don't mind!
Stop that train: I'm leavin'. And I said:
It won't be too long whether I'm right or wrong;
I said it won't be too long whether I'm right or wrong."

Huh. Words from a real crusader right there. All art is open to interpretation but here's what I got:

You people are stupid.
I'm sick of trying to teach you because you can't learn.
I'm gonna smoke another spliff and get the hell out of here.

Subject: big ideas
Date: Oct 15 2005 10:51:58 AM
Author: Drop Dead Fred

Do you really think most of these posts took more than two minutes a shot? I mean, look at some of these "thoughts..."

Subject: YAB
Date: Oct 15 2005 10:48:22 AM
Author: Roxy

If Caputi was the "gay police" you'd be serving a life term. You're a sad, sad little man. Why don't you get together with Heidi? You guys could spend days just considering where to shove cocks of all shapes and sizes...true romance.

Subject: Heidi Clough
Date: Oct 15 2005 10:40:45 AM
Author: Roxy

Wow. Heidi...time to up the meds a little. I can see you really took all of Lennon's music to heart, learned from it, and have become a better person for it...you fucking hypocrite.

Subject: big ideas
Date: Oct 15 2005 01:39:42 AM
Author: why?

I'm all for intelligent debate, but why would anyone consider the contents of VICE magazine fodder for intelligent debate? I read it because it's funny, and I know enough not to let what oher people think and say offend me too much. Seriously, could we sharpen our teeth on something a little more substantial than whether Bob Marley was a good musician or not, or a hero, or whatever it is that is being argued here? Or whether yab is a good arguer, and/or a liar?

I'm posting, which makes me something of a hypocrite, but expending any more than an hour in one day commenting in the VICE forum seems like a waste of time. This is like D&D - a trifling and, in some cases, all-too-consuming activity. Does anyone really care what the readers of VICE forums think?

Subject: steve...
Date: Oct 14 2005 10:56:32 PM
Author: yab

...stop being a fucking baby and stop taking shit SO seriously. what? are you the fucking gay police, now? wrrrrrrrrr....wrrrrrrr: "forced r4pe is bad, r4pe that is agreed upon is good!" - well thanks alot rabbi cockmongler! because we'd forget about all that is unholy and too gay for decency if you weren't sitting there with your tora with with pink bookmarker keeping tabs on what is "perverse".

heidi said nothing about Goad being "inhuman", and I didn't read shit about any forced buggery. it must've been YET ANOTHER DEULSION MATERIALIZED FROM YOUR F4GGOT MIND

Subject: gay-bashing logic
Date: Oct 14 2005 10:08:23 PM
Author: steve caputi

hey, it's yab checking in to remind us how little any of this means to him! ... and that he doesn't spend a lot of time dreaming about anal penetration of the unwilling!

so if the object of the scatological r*pe-murder fantasies is deemed inhuman, this means the fantasies magically aren't perverse? if you can label your "target" as a "sick" person, then pooping in their mouth suddenly doesn't become so "sick"? oh, ok!

and STOP it with the mommy-r*pe fantasies! it's SO cutting and SO hurtful!

Subject: in this case
Date: Oct 14 2005 08:11:33 PM
Author: yab

in this case? considering the kind of sick graphic shit her target has written? no. seriously, calling people "sick" and whining about the crazy shit they say has no place in a discourse like this one. besides, a penis in the booty is natural. ask your mom ;) but not between the hours of 10pm and 2am because i'll be fucking her in the ass.

Subject: heidi is obviously well-adjusted
Date: Oct 14 2005 07:32:49 PM
Author: steve caputi

does it strike anyone else besides me as ironic that someone with scatological anal-r*pe murder fantasies feels qualified to talk about how "fucked in the head" someone else is?

Subject: John Lennon
Date: Oct 14 2005 05:46:21 PM
Author: Heidi Clough

You should read this, Jim Goad, because it concerns you:
All John Lennon ever did wrong was infuriate a fucked up psycho. You could do that too, Jim. You should start wearing a bullet-proof helmet,Jim. But then your face would still be showing...Good. Because I want to take a shit in your mouth and pack it down tightly with my foot. You clearly missed the point of "Working Class Hero" entirely, but I won't even get into that.It would take too long to explain it to you. Take that cock out of your mouth and shove it up your ass where it belongs. The only reason that I still read articles written by Goad, is to remind myself how utterly fucked in the head some people can be.In closing I'd like to say you should've been a blow-job, you tampon gobbling son of a bitch.

Subject: meh.
Date: Oct 14 2005 04:27:36 AM
Author: señor butthole

fuck jack kerouac. i hate that guy.

leary. fuck THAT guy.

garcia? douchebag.

but JFK's cranial obliteration is topped only by 9/11's slam dunk for public displays of moneyshot horror.

so he was an asshole. so what. his head got blown off and it's cool to watch on repeat.

oh and lennon. meh.

marley. meh.

and crying indian is harmless. he's nothing more than a mr. clean. beneath discussion. you know, like joan rivers or something.

rogers? rogers has a creepy mistique. you've got nothing on rogers.

all the others can fuck off because they're human beings not, legendary gods and that's proof enough of their inadequacy.

Subject: shut the fuck up
Date: Oct 14 2005 02:24:08 AM
Author: a dude

shut the fuck up. find something better to do with your time. eat my ass.

Subject: dirty lenny
Date: Oct 14 2005 01:34:33 AM
Author: pinko

Jim, the only one that bothered me was Lenny Bruce. Not because I'm offended but just because it rings really false. I don't know if he was a snitch and personally I don't give a shit. But he *was* funny -- have your heard the records? -- and he wasn't even close to the sanctimonious freedom-fighter you make him out to be. What you're talking about is the sappy version of Lenny Bruce you'd hear about in an article in Entertainment Weekly. The Bruce who "died for our sins" -- he would have hated all that.

I feel kind of stupid criticizing an article like this for being inaccurate. But in order to be funny you do have to hit the target.

Subject: fdsa
Date: Oct 13 2005 09:54:30 AM
Author: eh

Marley didn't like the Jamaican establishment anyway. (This includes the black leaders) His remains are currently (unless this already happened) being taken to Africa under protest. Coincidentally enough Marley wasn't all that big of a deal in Jamaica until the events leading up to his death. And the same people protesting the move of his remains and calling him a hero are the same people that years ago hated him- Finally, Marley's agenda wasn't "Save Jamaica", you fucking waste of jizz. It was a fight for all the poor, exploited and powerless.

All this coming from someone who doesn't even LIKE reagge OR Marley.

Do your research, gaylord.

Subject: Halloween Benefit Song
Date: Oct 12 2005 11:54:39 PM
Author: Sasha

You could endorse racial lynchings and advocate forcible buggery of three-year-old orphans, and it wouldn't drive me away from your magazine as quickly as that FUCKING ANNOYING Halloween song.

And do you REALLY have to put it on every page of back issues too?

Subject: deaf bone
Date: Oct 12 2005 10:50:09 PM
Author: reason

"The vast, vast majority of the posts on this page don't get it. You are reading Vice, the editors, etc. must laugh themselves silly about how seriously y'all debate this stuff."

Who gives a fuck what they think?

Subject: bill hicks
Date: Oct 12 2005 03:43:00 PM
Author: fan

I like listening to Bill Hicks because he is (was) funny. I learn from other sources. Hate people for the right reasons.

Subject: 99%
Date: Oct 12 2005 03:12:05 PM
Author: Deaf Bone on left side of head

The vast, vast majority of the posts on this page don't get it. You are reading Vice, the editors, etc. must laugh themselves silly about how seriously y'all debate this stuff.

p.s. Marley is an easy target. Look at Jamaica now -- he failed. The place is still a shithole.

Subject: Peter on Sontag
Date: Oct 12 2005 01:54:23 AM
Author: Suzy Suntag

“Interpretation is the revenge of the critic upon art”
-- Susan Sontag

I'm sure Sontag would apprecitate your astute criticism ["She's fucking smart"], as much as she appreciated all criticism of all forms of art, including Goad's.

Perhaps Sontag enjoyed Goad's writing...we'll never know...

Subject: Goad 'n' Sontag
Date: Oct 12 2005 01:21:22 AM
Author: Kenny H.

Peter, you seem to equate intellectual prowess with aping the muddled pretense and obfuscatory prose of the French.

I disagree with your apparent assertion that Goad "conflates" the ontological realm with the world of ideas. His writing, especially in its attacks on leftist critical theory, makes a clear distinction between the two. He merely thinks that people such as Sontag have it ass-backwards. They tend to mistake the Polaroid for what's being photographed to the point where they switch the two—leading to patently goofy assertions such as "no writing = no truth."

Subject: Sontag
Date: Oct 11 2005 11:42:00 PM
Author: Peter

Read Sontag's introduction to The Collected Works of Antonin Artaud. She's fucking smart.

Goad is halfway smart and can write but his critique of Sontag is kind of limited by the fact that he is her intellectual inferior.

Also, the unequivocal "Wrong." that he uses to counter her point on the arbitrariness of truth because of its reliance on language is not much of a counter. You're referring to material fact, right Jim? To wed the "truth" of nature to the "truth" of, say, your article on slavery is to conflate two ideas of truth.

Is it true or not to state that you're an asshole? Is it true that I'm a sloppy thinker and you are a bastion of reason?

Subject: Mr. Rogers
Date: Oct 11 2005 07:17:43 PM
Author: Daniel

I'm writing to complement the entire staff of Vice Magazine with the exception of Jim Goad who should blow goats on exhibition as pennance for his comments about Mr. Rogers. Hey Jim -- sorry if starting the show with "A Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood" was too corny for your taste. Maybe he should have opened with some song about imperialist
oppression or existentialist demoralization or some real deep shit like that. Fred Rogers actually composed a whole catolog of good music for that show and got a great jazz
trio for segway. Any musicians might want to check out some of his tunes at pbs.org. He also talked about real shit that some kids with corny parents might not get turned on to
otherwise, and he wasn't a dancing idiot in a dinosaur costume. He was the most trustworthy person that ever got put on television. Fuck you.

Warm regards,
Daniel Loeb
Philadelphia, Pa.

Hey I know I'm posting a letter in the comments thing, but letters@viceland.com are returning my emails.

Subject: Other dead zeroes
Date: Oct 11 2005 01:56:40 PM
Author: "K"

Bill Hicks - I've heard several of his bits and routines,and there's nothing there.Just someone who believes he knows a whole lot of shit about the world and we don't.Nothing but insufferbale hipster assumptions/delusions.

"Dr." Benjamin spock - The father of the baby boom (de)generation.One of the biggest reasons so many young people,since 1945,have turned out the shitty,unfocused,undisciplined,spoiled rotten,impossible way they have.And like many lefty icons,was a total two-faced bastard.His own children let it be known,not long after he finally croaked.

Subject: Biggest Fags?
Date: Oct 10 2005 08:05:42 PM
Author: Jack Kerouac

I'M THE BIGGEST FAG, AND IF YOU EVER QUESTION IT AGAIN, I'LL ROCK YOUR BELLS, BITCH!

Subject: ken
Date: Oct 10 2005 07:17:48 PM
Author: what

you people are the biggest fags

bob marley fucking sucks

stop arguing

Subject: cont...
Date: Oct 10 2005 04:02:33 PM
Author: yab

(...continued)

the diffence is that founders of "vice" ARE and always were the establishment. scamming welfare checks is less of a noble and criminal act when you don't even need the money. for them to pretend that they're taking an anti-establishment stance is, to me, false.

Q: "But Dude, it's a free magazine"

And if all Vice remained was a free magazine, then you'd have a point. But they advertise big brand names, bring you pop bands courtesy of virgin records, bring you movies based on 80's tv shows.

and even if it's a free magazine...it's still a free magazine falling out of the ass of the mainstream establishment.

listen i'm not a hippy or any of this nonsense and i'm not saying i have all the answers. i'm just saying that for me, this is something to at least THINK about and i'm not paying the magazine any more attention. (outside of this discourse, obviously) -that's all.

Subject: still.
Date: Oct 10 2005 04:00:54 PM
Author: yab

i think it's pretty safe to say that he didn't feel any connection to white people or "white culture". just because his father (who abandoned him) was an "affluent pasty-white plantation overseer" doesn't mean that he personally partcipated in that lifestyle or culture growing up. AFTER he got rich? maybe. but so has just about every poor person that has become rich overnight.

the statement that seems to be made here is that cos Marley was half-white- he considered himself white so he was a white guy his whole life, enjoying the benefits of being white and that he shouldn't be singing about poor africans. that's simply not the case.

what is the case is that the vice 3 are rich kids with degrees who come from a dubious affluent cultural background. the point is that they pretend to be a part of a DIY punk sub-culture that they truly have no relation to. the biggest comparison is like, how those kids from A.R.E weapons dress down to look poor. they do it for the look, not because they are actually poor.

this, for me, really isn't about race. white or black or chinese- marley still grew up during the post-independence era of Trenchtown- a violent kingston slum. the establishment looked down on the poor, inner-city youth, reggae music and Rastafarian culture that they embraced to articulate their plight. he grew up in a time where people who believed in "get up, stand up" were getting *locked* up.

Subject: YAB strikes again
Date: Oct 10 2005 03:01:39 PM
Author: Jane Smith

"if vice really gave a shit they would line these boomer's pocket at our expense."

Dude, it's a free magazine.

Subject: not ironic
Date: Oct 10 2005 02:42:36 PM
Author: sheila

"Although Jim Goad is dead-on as usual, I find it ironic that he's dissing all these hippie icons in a magazine that, just last year, switched its mandate to concentrate solely on "neo-folk" and "weird America" bands that are basically a combination of the Grateful Dead and one of those scream therapy retreats for browbeaten, paunchy middle managers."

I believe the thrust of Vice's theme this month is that the Gen-Xers are still cleaning up the messes of and paying for the mistakes of the Boomers. These articles are keeping step with Vice's mandate, as all of the issues discussed directly or indirectly have an effect on everyone, even the "neo-folk."

I hate when people misuse the word "ironic." Really, it causes me physical pain. Is it me or is that also an earmark of the Gen-Xers?

Subject: four li'l birdies...
Date: Oct 10 2005 02:22:39 PM
Author: steve caputi

even if it was completely false, it's hard to get around the fact that bob marley was using (and being used by) the white power structure to sell his crush-the-white-power-structure philosophy. this is inherently duplicitous. it may have been for a "higher cause" in an ends-justifies-the-means sense, but there's some undeniable conflict-of-interest hijinks going on there. babylon made him a millionaire.

these hijinks seem very similar to what you're alleging about the vice-goad dyad. whether or not what you're saying about them is true, i think it weakens your argument when you try to hold marley blame-free for the very things of which you denounce the white boys. you could, of course, spin around and say we're trying to hold the white boys blame-free for what we wish to tar-and-feather marley with. i'll think about it.

Subject: tree li'l birdies...
Date: Oct 10 2005 02:20:14 PM
Author: steve caputi

i don't know whether you take psych meds some days and go off them on others, yabbie-o, but i'll kick down some credit that your last few posts are free of the foamy fulminations to which we've grown accustomed.

i can't speak for the author nor the publishers on their motivations. i will point out what to me seems to be an inherent contradiction in what you're saying. and as always, it goes back to marley.

goad's article implies marley gained "mythic status" through his rasta-farting. someone else came on here with what appeared to be a quote (for which i couldn't find corroboration) that record execs focused on the selling of marley because he was whiter than the other wailers. don't know if that's remotely true, but let's say it is for the moment.

if it is true, it's almost impossible that marley wasn't aware of it. and if he knew he was being sold because he wasn't as coal-black as his compadres...and then he went on to sing about goin' back to africa...this raises the matter of duplicity in marley for beyond what goad alleged in the article.

Subject: and?
Date: Oct 10 2005 02:20:28 PM
Author: yab.

just because your advertisers hated one article doesn't mean i'm 100% wrong about saying here. keep in mind that I never said that they didn't. as a matter of fact i'm sure they did and that in and of itself is the double edge sword of using the magazine. sure you get that drawback, but you're still marketing towards a large group of individuals that before- you didn't have access to. but whatever, right? semantics.

by the way bobby...that person had a link for that and it connects to a marketing company's website. not 60 minutes. i think should simply look at the fact that right now baby boomers are running things, that includes many of the bigger brand names that advertise with this magazine. if vice really gave a shit they would line these boomer's pocket at our expense.

but whatever right?

Subject: ironic...
Date: Oct 10 2005 12:23:10 PM
Author: shintriad

Although Jim Goad is dead-on as usual, I find it ironic that he's dissing all these hippie icons in a magazine that, just last year, switched its mandate to concentrate solely on "neo-folk" and "weird America" bands that are basically a combination of the Grateful Dead and one of those scream therapy retreats for browbeaten, paunchy middle managers.

Subject: Nice try boomers
Date: Oct 10 2005 09:41:53 AM
Author: Bobby Lemieux

"Subject: You again
Date: Oct 07 2005 09:23:04 PM
Author: Meme
Just read about a psych study showing gen x and ys are obsessed with peer group conformity and excessively devoted to pleasing authority--in short, good little concentration camp guards."
Speaking of liars, you did not read that Meme. You saw it on 60 Minutes. And what is 60 Minutes? Sunday School for boomers (only it's on at 7PM instead of 7AM). Boomers put together this hypothesis. They're contention is, if gen x and y (or "echo boomers" as these megalomaniacs like to call us) are not self centered then they must be robotic conformists. All that episode did was prove how myopic and self obsessed the boomers are.
The worst piece of evidence was when they asked a bunch of old boomer CEOs what characterizes their new young employees. They all said, "They want instant satisfaction and have trouble picturing long term gains." Guess what boomers, that is the primary characteristic of ALL new/young employees since the beginning of time. It's indicative of ALL young people not just our generation.

Subject: your theory
Date: Oct 10 2005 09:00:18 AM
Author: INsider

there's only one problem with your theory: advertizers hated the slavery article. Advertizers do not like controversy. That's why, everytime vice has something like a blow job or a cock hanging out or a slavery article they lose thousands and thousands of dollars.
Back to the drawing board Yab.

Subject: finale
Date: Oct 10 2005 07:08:07 AM
Author: yab

subversion is all well and good, but this isn't it. vice and it's founders were always apart of the mainstream. in order to subvert you have to be different from what you're subverting. the voice of the magazine now is likened to a politician or a marketing executive. everything that's being said isn't real- it's being said to get your attention. and with goad writing for this magazine? to me, it makes him a traitor to his own class, culture and his ideals. thus: not to be trusted either.

summing up: you guys can continue to listen to this bullshit if you want...but i'm done with this thread and this magazine.

Subject: finale
Date: Oct 10 2005 07:02:02 AM
Author: yab

for example: back at the slavery article people used the article as an opportunity to voice their opinions about race. (me included) - it was bell curve vs guns, germs and steel. while everyone was in one place- ads flashing about- supporters of diamond's book failed to realize that diamond- and the arguement legitimizes a supposed competition of the races that is playing out. a competition that has divided the poor at the whim of the rich. that's why I personally questioned the motives of that article and this one.

was this just another attempt to divide people in sensational vice fashion (attention = ads)? the founders of the magazine have very dubious, spoiled rich college kid backgrounds- ones that make you question if they really mean it when they use the magazine to say shit like: let's all stick to together against the man! let's root out those who sold out! celebrate those who didn't! ....but at the same time work with and accept money from governments and corporations that make bank off of your division. accepting Candian grants, manipulating a system intended to help minorities. 4million dollar profit margin and unpaid writers and cartoonists.

Subject: finale
Date: Oct 10 2005 06:58:46 AM
Author: yab.

it's clear to me that I've been wrong about alot of things concerning my commentary to article. fine, alright, I didn't pay attention to what I was saying and I really didn't pay much attention to what's being said. however, there's a huge difference between misinformation (or misintereptation of information)- ignorance and flat out lying. saying something because you assumed it was true and saying something even though you know it's not true are two different animals. most of my so-called "lies" fall into the former.

with that said: that does not change my views (views which you refuse to address) of this article, vice inc, soon to be vice owned virtue adverstising, goad or the selling back of our own culture. when I say "we", I don't mean just any one race- I'm talking about all that this magazine is supposed to represent, the very reason that nike, levi, deisel, virgin records attach themselves to the vice brand: sub-culture.

i understand the need to compartmentalize the magazine (and the culture itself) - but the bigger picture is that the magazine has turned into a mouthpiece for ideals (i really should say corporations) that even the trendiest post-colliegate hipsters vehementally and intrisically hates because the degree of integrity that comes from ^intelligently^ deciding not to be apart of the "mainstream".

(cont)

Subject: :)
Date: Oct 09 2005 11:40:37 PM
Author: John

cos i die first so i take all credit.

Subject: Don't Blame Me
Date: Oct 09 2005 11:23:13 PM
Author: John Lennon

'ey, mate, don't pin that one on me. Paul wrote that one. Wish I could pop off his new girlfriend's prosthetic leg and beat him with it.

Subject: Let It Be
Date: Oct 09 2005 10:46:34 PM
Author: John Lennon

When I find myself in times of trouble
Mother mary comes to me
Speaking words of wisdom, let it be.
And in my hour of darkness
She is standing right in front of me
Speaking words of wisdom, let it be.
Let it be, let it be.
Whisper words of wisdom, let it be.

And when the broken hearted people
Living in the world agree,
There will be an answer, let it be.
For though they may be parted there is
Still a chance that they will see
There will be an answer, let it be.
Let it be, let it be. yeah
There will be an answer, let it be.

And when the night is cloudy,
There is still a light that shines on me,
Shine on until tomorrow, let it be.
I wake up to the sound of music
Mother mary comes to me
Speaking words of wisdom, let it be.
Let it be, let it be.
There will be an answer, let it be.
Let it be, let it be,
Whisper words of wisdom, let it be.

Subject: Bob Marley
Date: Oct 09 2005 10:13:48 PM
Author: Suzy

Yeah...I had no idea he was half-white.

Subject: For the record
Date: Oct 09 2005 06:20:03 PM
Author: Joe J.

I think Bob Marley's music sucks, too. And I never knew he was half-white.

Subject: Controversy
Date: Oct 09 2005 11:50:48 AM
Author: Prince

What continues to escape anyone who keeps shrieking things such as, "Why are you publishing this?" in the hopes that it will dissuade the magazine from assigning the writer further articles is the fact that editors and publishers tend to get firm, long erections whenever something they've published causes the amount of feedback—positive or negative—that articles such as this one engenders.

In other words, if you continue to howl about VICE publishing Jim Goad, the ironic outcome will be that they'll continue to publish Jim Goad.

Subject: Bob Marley
Date: Oct 09 2005 11:36:27 AM
Author: suzy

The mere mention of Bob Marley causes my ass muscles to clench...followed by a tightening of the jaw...and then finally the desire to put my head through a wall just to stop the pain.

I believe only those attending the Forrest Gump School of Philosophy could find inspiration in lyrics such as: "Don't worry 'bout a ting, every little ting gonna be alright..."

These are the sort of vomit-inducing sentimentalities that cause me, a non-violent person, to want to buy a gun just to plant three bullets square in the breasts of the three little birdies perched on Bob's doorstep.

I couldn't care less what race the guy is...I hate, nay, loathe his music...especially when played by white guys with dreadlocks.

Subject: YAB must be VERY happy
Date: Oct 09 2005 11:35:24 AM
Author: bob marley

No man is happy without a delusion of some kind. Delusions are as necessary to our happiness as realities.

Author: Christian Nevell Bovee 1820-1904, American Author, Lawyer

Subject: YAB
Date: Oct 09 2005 11:29:44 AM
Author: read me

People who cannot recognize a palpable absurdity are very much in the way of civilization.

Author: Agnes Repplier 1858-1950, American Author, Social Critic

Subject: YAB
Date: Oct 09 2005 10:49:48 AM
Author: read me

Modern man must descend the spiral of his own absurdity to the lowest point; only then can he look beyond it. It is obviously impossible to get around it, jump over it, or simply avoid it.

Author: Vaclav Havel 1936-, Czech Playwright, President

Subject: wigga amnesia
Date: Oct 09 2005 10:35:12 AM
Author: steve caputi

"The facts about Marley's surgery clearly state that he decided to have it in the end to shitty results. Hiding this fact and presenting it as if he said "no surgery" and then died is LYING."

no, hiding the fact that you're talking about cancer surgery while a christian rather than toe amptutation while a rasta—which every word in the article is entirely devoted to toe amputation as a rasta, which is the ONLY THING THAT WOULD HAVE SAVED HIM—is the lie.

also acting AGAIN as if you have knowledge the writer was "hiding a fact," is the OTHER lie.

Subject: wigga amnesia
Date: Oct 09 2005 10:30:06 AM
Author: steve caputi

HERE YOU SAID THIS:
" Q: "Goad was on speed during his crime."
No need to disprove it, since you didn't prove it."

Don't need to. Wasn't a serious statement."

THERE YOU SAID THIS:
"100% factual shit- like that time he got all spacked out and beat his girlfriend"

so when you claim something is "100 factual," we're to ascertain it's "not a serious statement"?

Subject: wigga amnesia
Date: Oct 09 2005 10:28:48 AM
Author: steve caputi

HERE YOU SAY THIS:
I said he denied behing misogynist. Not violent, etc etc..so that = LIE.

THERE YOU SAID THIS:
The guy obviously has a history of violence, mental instability and misogynism...all the while Goad claims to not be any of those.

moron boy, for your own sake, at least deny saying things that you didn't say on this very thread.

Subject: keep on believing =)
Date: Oct 09 2005 01:53:41 AM
Author: so what?

Q: "Proof is given YAB spends his entire life bitching with no evidence of doing anything to help anyone."

WHAT PROOF? Where is your concrete evidence of this? Fact: You don't know what the fuck I do. Result? LIE

Q: "Goad was on speed during his crime."
No need to disprove it, since you didn't prove it."

Don't need to. Wasn't a serious statement. This would be like me calling you liar for all those times you claimed I wanted to suck Goad's dick or whatever. This is a fucking circus. And you are a CLOWN.

Q: "Numerous times, you accused him of hypocrisy and duplicity."

No shit? So maybe that means the quote before was...maybe a lie? YES I THINK SO.

Q: "misogynist"

I said he denied behing misogynist. Not violent, etc etc..so that = LIE.

Q: ""Marley was obviously not connected to the white power structure.""

COMPLETE MISINTERPETATION. Nice word twisting tho. What I said was that he had no social or CULTURAL connection to the white power structure. Being a part of a record label doesn't count. IE = THAT DOESN'T MEAN BOB CONSIDERED HIMSELF WHITE AND CHOSE TO HIDE THAT FACT. To say otherwise would be a huge stretch of the imagination.

Also: Using that as a direct quote = LIE.

I can go on and on here. You rhetorical strategies is clear. You're a joke

Subject: Rediculous!
Date: Oct 09 2005 01:38:57 AM
Author: so what?

Again: "You see arguments as nothing more than rhetorical strategies."

Case in point.

Q: "You're white"

No, I'm not. But to be sure: There's NO way you can prove that I am white- or that I "realized how stupid it was and tried to cover it up". Result: You're pulling it out of your ass and YOU'RE LYING.

Q: "There’s no way YAB could know what Goad was or wasn’t aware of when he wrote this article, so to state this as fact is to lie"

Sorta how there's no way you can truly be aware of my actual race, right? I found that information (about Bob's father), I suspect in the same way you found yours. Either both of you are blind, ignorant or LYYYYING. Take your pick.

Q: "Proof is given that he was telling the absolute truth."

Uh, no. The facts about Marley's surgery clearly state that he decided to have it in the end to shitty results. Hiding this fact and presenting it as if he said "no surgery" and then died is LYING.

proof: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Marley#Collapse_and_treatme
nt /> http://www.8notes.com/biographies/marley.asp#Battle_with
_cancer />
Q: "Lenny didn't start ratting until the government started harassing him for his act."

Um, No. I never said that. By the way: Using this as a direct quote of mine when I said no such thing? = LIE

Subject: Black People are DA BOMB!
Date: Oct 09 2005 12:47:15 AM
Author: so what?

I think black people are really cool because they can reach higher than us and pick fruit right off of trees without a ladder!

Their teeth can stay white without having to use Crest Dentu-Strips!

They talk kinda funny, but I bring an interpreter with me wherever I go!

Subject: Hey, Look Everybody!
Date: Oct 09 2005 12:37:00 AM
Author: Enzo Stuarti

Hey, peeps!

There are some black people over yonder, and they're really poor! They're stuck eatin' yams and sweet-potato pie and chitterlings, and they can't afford a toothpick between 'em.

We should do something to help them! Let's take up a collection and buy them some new sneakers with the Dr. Scholl's "Gellin' Like a Felon" insoles.

It'd be the intellectual thing to do.

Subject: wont miss
Date: Oct 08 2005 10:40:56 PM
Author: cant miss

Subject: break-time
Date: Oct 08 2005 05:09:17 PM
Author: no-name

http://media.putfile.com/onkelz-tittenshow-01-la-ultima-
2004

Subject: Now What?
Date: Oct 08 2005 08:01:17 PM
Author: Kenny H.

"And you have hinged your entire base of me being a "liar" on this."

We based it on everything enumerated in the last four posts.

"And then you blame me of Mccarthy-like tactics?"

The McCarthyite tactics involve smearing someone with the word "racist" just as McCarthy smeared people with "communist." It involves lying, dodging, and character assassination in the absence of anything resembling a decent argument.

"OOOKKKK."

You like the way we write so much, you keep stealing it. Same goes for the "hinge the entire argument" phrase, which was initally used about you and your faux-black pain. Same goes for "transparent" and numerous other examples.

"So I say to myself: Clearly I'm not dealing with a scholarly bunch,"

Quite a bold comment from someone whose argumentative skills have been trounced repeatedly. If we aren't scholarly, you're barely kindergarten.

Subject: What Lies? numero quatro
Date: Oct 08 2005 07:50:44 PM
Author: Kenny H.

Another:
"I've said dozens of anti-white things, and this somehow doesn't disqualify me from decrying racism, so long as that racism is anti-black."
Fallacy is evident to everyone except him.

Half-a-lie:
"If Goad's girlfriend was hitting him, he should have left."
Proven hollow when he doesn't hold Goad's wife to the same standard.

BIGGEST lie:
"This doesn't matter to me."
Easily disproven by the amount of time you spend here.

When Feces McChubb comes on here with even ONE statement that is as easy to shoot down as all the cannon fodder you’ve given us and keeps whining about "taking a stand," we'll hold him to the same burden of proof that your statements and lies have established for yourself.

And when you show that you hold yourself to anywhere near the standard you try to hold JG to, we'll cut you some slack. M‘Kay?

Subject: What Lies? numero tres
Date: Oct 08 2005 07:28:42 PM
Author: Kenny H.

Another:
"Goad...supports the Man."
Proof is given that Goad is a felon whose writing excoriates the government to the point where someone quoted it to shoot at the White House.

Another:
"Goad acted as if Lenny's snitching canceled out his free-speech fights."
Proof is cited from the article that this is wrong.

Another:
"Goad acts like he knows what a real hero should be."
Proof is given that Goad dislikes the very idea of heroes.

Another:
"Jim Goad acts like he's on some higher moral ground."
Proof is given that Goad has always been honest about his moral failings.

Another:
"It's wrong to sit and bitch about things without offering positive change."
Proof is given YAB spends his entire life bitching with no evidence of doing anything to help anyone.

Another:
"An obviously satirical passage about not being a member of a global conspiracy is proof of jg saying one thing and doing another."
No refutation necessary.

Another:
"Anything bad said about Goad is 100% factual, anything bad said about these heroes is purely hypothetical."
Proof is given that he's lying about Goad and proof is offered to support the factual basis of what's said in the article.

Subject: What Lies? numero dos
Date: Oct 08 2005 07:27:10 PM
Author: Kenny H.

Another:
"His wife wasn't really lying when she made absolutely contradictory statements again and again."
No refutation necessary.

Another:
"Goad was on speed during his crime."
No need to disprove it, since you didn't prove it.

Another:
"I never accused Goad of saying one thing and doing another."
Numerous times, you accused him of hypocrisy and duplicity.

Another:
"I don't want to refute facts."
Disproven by all the facts listed here which you tried and failed to refute.

Another:
"There's no proof for this shit."
Evidence is offered for every factoid that's challenged.

Another:
"Goad denies being violent, unstable, and misogynist."
Proof is given that he's always written about being these things far before anyone else could accuse him.

Another:
"Marley was obviously not connected to the white power structure."
Proof is given that Marley was a millionaire whose checks were written by the white record industry.

Another:
"Marley wasn't even that successful during his lifetime."
Proof is given that he was. See the entry above.

Subject: What Lies? numero uno
Date: Oct 08 2005 07:26:30 PM
Author: Kenny H.

Since you asked...

First lie:
"I'm black."

Second lie:
"I realize it makes me look foolish to base my whole argument on knowing the pain of blackness and then admit I'm white, so, uh, I'm black again, OK?"

Another:
"Goad's a hypocrite."
Disproven not only through no evidence, but severely undermined through dozens of examples of the accuser's duplicity.

Another:
"Lenny didn't start ratting until the government started harassing him for his act."
Proof is given that he was ratting on dealers at least two years prior to government harassment.

Another:
"Goad's slavery article cited The Bell Curve."
Proof was given that it didn't.

Another:
"Goad was r$ped and snitched on his wife."
Ohhhhh-kayyyyy.

Another:
"Goad LIED about Marley's surgery."
Proof is given that he was telling the absolute truth.

Another:
“Goad purposely hid facts about Marley’s dad.”
There’s no way YAB could know what Goad was or wasn’t aware of when he wrote this article, so to state this as fact is to lie.

Subject: Ohyeah.
Date: Oct 08 2005 06:30:44 PM
Author: so what?

And steve, I guess it's ok that Feces McChubb over here doesn't use his real name? Of course it is. Ok, then buddy- just checkin' in.

Anyway, Chubbs I can see you're trying really hard with the Bob Marley thing. Do you have any actual response to what I wrote- or is going to be more: "He's a liar! He's a liar! He's a wigger!" nonsense?

Subject: what lies, though?
Date: Oct 08 2005 06:29:41 PM
Author: so what?

Ex: You have no proof of me being white. None. The only reason you know I lied is because I told you, I did. I fully explained that what I did had a purpose and you're still crying about it because you feel decieved. And you have hinged your entire base of me being a "liar" on this. And then you blame me of Mccarthy-like tactics?

OOOKKKK. So I say to myself: Clearly I'm not dealing with a scholarly bunch, I'm not in a situation where I'm required to "take a stand". You've tried, with out any proof, to paint a self-loathing, white, leftist, humanist liar.

All of which are 100% untrue.

And more importantly, completely beside the point of any argument however wrong, that I made. If I'm black or white, I'm still wrong to you, right? So why all the "fake-nigga" nonsense?

What I mean is: Why should I give you name when you're obviously not the least bit interested in truth? You're not interested in my name or why I prefer not to use my name. You're interested in using the fact that I don't use one to your advantage. You see arguments as nothing more than rhetorical strategies. That was clear to me back at the Slavery article.

And you're just now starting to question why you leave a name and why I don't?

Hahaha...dense and slow. That's not good.

Subject: Confucius Say, "YAB" Retarded
Date: Oct 08 2005 06:03:44 PM
Author: Feces McChubb

"the white father and society that wouldn't accept his blackness "

Ahh, now we're getting to the meat of the matter. This small wrinkled turd of a human identifies with Bob Marley because he knows the pain of when people won't accept your "blackness."

At least in Marley's case, there was some blackness there to accept.

UNREAL! When you need to lie this much to prove a point, all it proves is that you have no point.

Subject: how so
Date: Oct 08 2005 05:43:05 PM
Author: so what?

ah, but Marley did decide to have the operation, it was just too late. The idea is that Marley was stupid because he didn't try to save his own life. Well, turns out he did. he just didn't want people to know.

and when you say that a guy's father is white, then proceed to lamblast the guy for not embracing that whiteness or even hiding it (which, there is NO PROOF that Bob tried to supress this information)

you don't leave out: that his white middle aged father left his black teenage mother before he was even born. you don't leave out: the fact that this was jaimaica in the 1940's and that whites and blacks frowned upon mixed children and relationships

or wait, maybe when you Jim Goad you do. and maybe when your so stuck on proving yourself right you ignore it. to make it seem like Bob had an attachment to his white father or an attachment to white culture and then to accuse him of hiding it is dishonest and misinformative. deal with it.

Subject: Two Possibilities
Date: Oct 08 2005 05:52:35 PM
Author: Chucky

Two possibilities here:

(1) YAB/So What? actually believes himself.
(2) He doesn't.

If option (1) is correct, we have before us what is demonstrably the most delusional creature ever to squat and take a poop.

If option (2) is correct, it probably IS Jim Goad or one of his cronies doing a smashing job of making Goad look better.

Subject: queer
Date: Oct 08 2005 05:46:04 PM
Author: steve caputi

"i find it queer that you request some form of truth out of me now when you've been obsessively preoccupied with the notion that i'm a habitual liar. "

of course. no projection goin' on there, blanco. no proof of your lies. no one is able to scroll down and see them revealed time after time. your proven habitual lies become our "obsession," not your psychological flaw. it's just a "notion," not something that's there for all to see.

no one requested truth out of you. it's obvious you're incapable of it. someone just pointed out ANOTHER contradiction...that you demand everyone "take a stand" while you're too ball-free to even stand behind your real name...like, say, jg does when he stamps his real name on everything he writes. that alone is more of a "stand" than anything you've done, ya soft puss.

and, really...keep hammering away at the keyboard denying this matters to you. you're eminently believable about everything.

Subject: Liar, Liar
Date: Oct 08 2005 05:39:41 PM
Author: Kenny H.

"Not only did Goad LIE about Marley's surgery, he purposely left out the conditions under which Marley was born a mulatto- "

You've searched so hard for lies without finding one that all you have left is to make up lies about lies? What weird sort of syndrome do you possess that impels you to lie even to the point of accusing someone else of lying in order to cover your lies? You have about fifty lies on record here, none of which you can erase. Where does Goad's article even mention cancer surgery?

http://www.hotshotdigital.com/OldRock/BobMarley.html

"The cancer that killed Bob Marley started in his right big toe. Doctors advised him to have the toe amputated, but he refused, saying "Rasta no abide amputation. I and I don't allow a mon ta be dismantled." The cancer proceeded to spread to the rest of his body and he was dead within four years."

EXACTLY what Goad said.

And when you mention someone's father is white, that's INCLUDING the conditions under which Mulatto Bob was born.

Subject: you must really be some kind of fool
Date: Oct 08 2005 05:12:09 PM
Author: so what?

what exactly would i be standing up for in this instance, hm? the right for people to like Lenny Bruce and Bob Marley? ha! Or how about the "right to not like goad"? ok buddy, that's just what I've been waiting for- finally! my moment to shine with internet commentary

maybe if this discussion was something that I knew actually mattered, with people who've lined out their core beliefs, who I somewhat respect--i'd stand behind it, you know? really get into it! name and all. but all I know about you is your name, your agenda, and your willingness to see that agenda "win out"

i find it queer that you request some form of truth out of me now when you've been obsessively preoccupied with the notion that i'm a habitual liar.

listen: how about this? you just stick to your script and i'll stick to mine. this isn't a social gathering and you don't need to know my name, ok dumplin?

Subject: break-time
Date: Oct 08 2005 05:09:17 PM
Author: no-name

http://media.putfile.com/onkelz-tittenshow-01-la-ultima-2004

Subject: yeah yeah yeah
Date: Oct 08 2005 04:50:44 PM
Author: so what?

if you're going the whole Bell-Curve influenced approach with this "can of worms" you can forget it. been there three years ago, been there 3 monthes ago, bought the newsletter, read the article, argued the point with people assuredly more versed in the subject than you.

even so that's entirely beside the point. The whole bulk of the Bob Marley thing is horseshit. Not only did Goad LIE about Marley's surgery, he purposely left out the conditions under which Marley was born a mulatto- which no doubt had a direct impact on his upbringing, his beliefs and his views on race and whiteness.

just because a bunch of kids that don't even listen to him didn't know he was half/half doesn't really mean much when it was obvious to the white father and society that wouldn't accept his blackness and the black jamiacans that certainly didn't accept his whiteness.

if you could still argue that somehow he was decieving people- I'd like to hear it. because OBVIOUSLY the particularities of his race weren't that important if we're talking about it DECADES after his MILLION DOLLAR success and death.

Subject: Scorched by His Own Words Again
Date: Oct 08 2005 04:44:56 PM
Author: Kenny H.

"i'm not even using my real name. "

So the person who keeps yabberin' about "standing for something" can't even stand behind his real name?

Subject: Can of Worms
Date: Oct 08 2005 04:35:39 PM
Author: Kenny H.

"is it still hard to understand that's still the case today? that world wide...people with white skin are better off than those with dark skin?"

I don't know a person on earth who doesn't understand that.

But you're opening an oil-barrel-sized can o' worms if you want to discuss the reasons for why that might be.

Subject: still
Date: Oct 08 2005 04:00:39 PM
Author: so what?

how does Bob Marley doing business with whites, in an industry still run by mostly whites...mean that he was connected and therefore neglecting his "white heritage"? did you glare over the part where i said that at the time africans were the most powerless when it came to race and class?

is it still hard to understand that's still the case today? that world wide...people with white skin are better off than those with dark skin? know what? doesn't even matter.

no matter how you slice it, bob marley was half-white genetically- not socially. not culturally. where (obviously) it counts. this was in between the 40's and 60's. you have to completely stupid it make a big stink about him not acknowledging his whiteness or giving a remote fuck about eurpoean whites.

and steve, no I don't disagree with that. but when it's either that or jail? the reaction varies from man to man. not everyone has to follow the "code of the streets" or whatever.

kinda reminds of something Goad said about how people don't like criminals because they do what they are too afriad to do. I think the same cuts for criminals and people who don't believe in that honor among theieves bullshit.

Subject: whatever.
Date: Oct 08 2005 03:31:10 PM
Author: so what?

honestly, steve... to me this is just another disscussion. any "attacks" or assumptions I may have made about people's characters were purely impulsive and defensive (except Goad). i have not and will not spend any time making useless assumptions about your personality or conjectures about your psychology.

if i cared deeply and this was face-to-face...maybe I would. but it's just the internet- and i'm not even using my real name.

"believe what you want" pretty much sums it up. you don't think i'm black? believe what you want. think i'm a leftist? believe what you want. this i'm a humanist? believe what you want. think i care deeply or i've got some goofy agenda to stop goad at all cost? believe what you want.

really, let's be honest. it's what you're best at and i'm definately not going to put in effort to make you believe otherwise.

Subject: Can We Have Some Difficult Questions?
Date: Oct 08 2005 03:48:05 PM
Author: Kenny H.

"obiously he was not connected to "overseers" because one would think he would've cared a great deal more about his career."

Obviously. And I'm positive he never dealt with white record execs or white bankers or white lawyers or white accountants. Oh, wait:

http://www.bobmarleymagazine.com/articles/blunt.htm

A pro-Bob magazine says Bob was a millionaire in his lifetime.

Subject: no honor among snitches
Date: Oct 08 2005 03:34:27 PM
Author: steve caputi

"it's wrong and against all that one considers "intelligent" to snitch when you run the risk of going to jail, or to simply have a belief or code of conduct?"

to me, it's incredibly wrong to send someone else into a cage for behavior which you indulge in. to snitch on a dealer while the needle's still sticking out of your arm is a repellent act. do you disagree about that?

it may be savvy in a darwinian survivalist sense, but isn't that the realm of fascists rather than a