NEWSLETTER

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DAVID LYNCH

INTERVIEW BY JESSE PEARSON
PHOTO FROM AP, MANIPULATED BY TARA SINN



I am a big-time David Lynch nut. I remember having to steal a copy of Blue Velvet and watch it at a friend’s house because my parents thought it was too sketchy for me to see at 12. I watched each episode of Twin Peaks the night that it originally aired. I saw Wild at Heart and Fire Walk With Me on their opening days. For my money, this guy has made some of the most original, thrilling, deep, and beautiful cinema ever, ever, ever.

So just because you care, here are my favorite David Lynch things in descending order from the best on down to the simply very great:

• The episodes of Twin Peaks that he directed
• Blue Velvet
• Inland Empire
• Mulholland Drive
• Wild at Heart (this was at the top of the list when I was 15)
• Fire Walk With Me
• The Elephant Man
• Eraserhead
• Dune
• His early shorts
• Catching the Big Fish

I didn’t like Lost Highway, but let’s not bother getting into that.

Now here’s the tricky part. David Lynch and I both practice this thing called Transcendental Meditation, which was invented by a guy named Maharishi Mahesh Yogi back in the 1950s. The Beatles did it; Howard Stern and Jerry Seinfeld do it too. Weird collection of people right there. I interviewed Lynch for Vice a few years ago, and we talked only about TM at that time. I figured that this time around we would talk about TM and more stuff, broader stuff, life and movie stuff. And we did, sort of. But you also have to realize that for Lynch, the tenets of TM are of the utmost importance. His whole life is inextricably linked to it. No matter what you ask him, he is likely to link it back to meditation. So, after we were done talking this time around and I listened to the tape, I thought, hmm, we really did talk about TM a lot here. Maybe it’s weird to put all this TM talk into the magazine. Maybe it feels like a commercial for my and his brand of spirituality. Maybe I shouldn’t do this.

But then I realized: I’m the editor of this magazine and the rest of you aren’t. So fuck y’all if you don’t want to hear about it. Here’s me and Lynch talking about meditation, the unified field, total enlightenment, and cheese.

Vice: Hello, Mr. Lynch. I don’t know if you remember, but I interviewed you a few years ago. We spoke mainly about Transcendental Meditation that time.
David Lynch: I’ll be darned.

I’m a practitioner as well, since I was a little kid.
Fantastic, Jesse!

I want to touch on TM this time as well but also go a little broader later on. I know that meditation is very important to you in terms of your creative process. I often find myself wanting to interrupt meditations to jot down ideas. Does this happen to you too?
Well, you know, the Beatles asked Maharishi the same question when they were with him in Rishikesh in ’68. They’d get ideas in meditation too. He said, “Come out, write it down, and then go back to meditating.”

Wow. I’ll do that from now on.
See, the idea is very clear down there, and so it’s really thrilling when it comes. But if you wait till after you finish to jot it down, chances are that you’ll forget it.

That’s happened to me a lot. Is it the same for you?
If I’ve really got a hot one, I come out and write it down, and then I go right back in.

Now that I think about it, if I’m interrupted I sometimes find it easier to go right back into a deep meditation as opposed to a shallower one.
I know what you mean, but a lot of times “shallow” and “deep” are sort of subjective things. If you saw yourself on an EEG machine, you might be surprised at how many times you were transcending during a meditation.

I guess it goes in peaks and valleys.
You dip in and dip out. Maybe you go in there and you didn’t really get zapped, but you’ve still touched it many times, meaning the transcendent, which is the deepest level. You experience that many times in each meditation.

Just for different lengths of time.
Yeah.

That makes sense. It sounds familiar to me. I think I was around seven years old when I first started having experiences in meditation that felt transcendent to me.
[laughs] That’s fantastic.

It was pretty funny. My grandparents and my friends thought I was in a cult.
Now, just for your readers, Transcendental Meditation is not a religion, not a cult, not a sect… It’s a mental technique—an ancient form of meditation—that unlocks the human being’s full potential. And the full potential of a human being is called enlightenment. It’s really pretty foolish not to meditate.

Our readers might start to tune us out now if they aren’t open to hearing about this stuff, but oh well. So yes, it’s true for me too—not meditating is sort of a waste of one’s own capabilities.
Yeah! You’ve got this potential, but you’re not going to get it unless you experience transcendence—that deepest level. Pure consciousness. And every time you experience the transcendent, you infuse some of it and you grow in that consciousness. You grow in intelligence, creativity, happiness, love, energy, and peace.

All good stuff, basically.
And the side effect is that negativity starts to lift away. It’s a win-win-win situation.

You don’t have to tell me.
I know, but we have to tell your readers. [laughs] People get it at different times, and you’ve got to want it to do it. And hearing these things might make some people out there say, “Man, I gotta have that!” That happens—more and more these days.

If the reader comments on our website from the last time I talked to you about this stuff are any indication, we’re going to get slammed. Anyway, based on what I’ve read about your working process, ideas might come to you and then not get used for years and years.
Sometimes, yeah.

What’s your method for keeping track of ideas?
I write them on little pieces of paper and then I drop those in a box. So I have, like, an idea box. And then I sometimes go through there, and one idea is suddenly like a little jewel. And so I’ll start to think about it, and you know what they say: “Where the attention is, that becomes lively.”

Right.
Focused attention has a magic quality. The idea does become lively, and it can make other ideas swim in, like little fish, and join it. And then a whole thing starts to emerge.

Is there also an element of the idea having a different context just because, say, five years—with all the changes that can happen in that amount of time—have gone by? Something that was mysterious to you when it popped into your head could be clear as day five years later.
Yeah! It’s like all ideas have a time for being. And for some reason, at some specific time, you’ll read an old idea and it just makes you crazy because you love it so much.

Do you ever go back and watch your old films?
Sometimes. My son Riley hadn’t seen them before, so I saw them all with him recently. It’s the same way with my older paintings—it’s sometimes good to go back and look at your old stuff. It’s just like the idea box. You might see something that you did way back when, and some part of that can feed into the work you’re doing right now and jump-start it.

What do you call the place where ideas originate? The subconscious?
No. Everything—everything—originates in the unified field. It’s an ocean of pure consciousness. It’s the transcendent. And that’s what quantum physics says now: Everything that is a thing has emerged from that field. New things are always emerging and bubbling up from it. So an idea will come, but you will not know the idea until it enters your conscious mind. Now, if you expand your consciousness you can catch ideas at deeper and deeper levels, and they’ll have more information and more energy.

It’s pretty intense.
Plus, as you understand things more, there’s more to understand!

That’s true. It’s almost kind of scary.
Everybody relies on ideas.

Your more recent work, specifically Mulholland Drive and Inland Empire, sort of has the rhythm of meditation to me. We drift, find focus, drift, and find focus. Is there anything to that, or am I reaching?
Well, I always say that those two films, like any other film, are based on ideas. I’m not trying to duplicate a meditation experience. I’m trying to translate ideas that came to me, to make them feel, in cinema, the way they did when they came to my mind. It’s all based on the ideas that come.

Sure, without the idea there’s nothing.
Exactly right.

Why do you think so many people have such a desire to know the meaning of your films?
I always say the same thing—we’re like detectives. Films are another world, with new characters and new situations. When things are concrete in films, you don’t have a problem understanding them. When they get abstract, then the understanding varies and people come up with different interpretations based on what’s inside of themselves. When you look at life, we’re always looking at stuff and wondering and thinking about this and that—trying to suss out what’s going on, just like we’re watching a film.

Just walking down any street could lead to a thousand different mysteries.
Ex-actly.

But even with all of that said, don’t you get tired of people asking you what things in your work mean?
But I don’t ever say what they mean. I say, “You know, for yourself, what it means. And that’s valid.”

Your films can be very scary. I know people who can’t even watch the first Winkie’s scene in Mulholland Drive. What do you think an audience might get out of being so freaked out by a movie? I know that there is something valuable for me in it, but I can’t put my finger on what it is.
Well, I know that the images can be fearful, but those are just the ideas that came. Or they came with that fear. But there’s nothing really scary there. It’s just the way the scene goes, and the words that are said, and the way the expressions look, and the way the camera moves, and the way the sound is designed. It all conjures up a thing that makes people say “Whoa”—just like I said “Whoa” when I got the idea. And of course ideas can come up and conjure beautiful images too.

Of course.
Thank goodness for the ideas, because they tell you how to go. Intuition tells you how to go. Intuition is the number-one tool for the artist.

Without that intuition, you can’t make art.
You can’t just read a book and become a painter or a filmmaker. There’s some other abstract quality that has to be there too. And that’s called intuition. Number-one tool!

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Comments

	tammy faye, on Oct 14, 2009 wrote: remember when you had the audio to go along with the article? fiction i think? you should have done that for lynch. his voice is just too good.
Anonymous, on Oct 13, 2009 wrote: amateur interviewer? you have no idea what you’re talking about. do your research. the whiny cunts who post comments like that are what is wrong with the internet. what the fuck have YOU ever done?
Anonymous, on Oct 8, 2009 wrote: It’s always interesting to hear David Lynch talk, but this is kind of a missed opportunity having sent such an amateur interviewer. Example: He asks, "If this guy is so into the pursuit of bliss and enlightenment, why are his films so dark?” Then ends his own question by saying, "I think that’s kind of a dumb way to look at it." So the only thing you get from Lynch is: "But it is a legitimate question." Yeah. It’s a legitimate question we aren’t going to have answered because of Vice’s nervous fanboy interviewer. "That’s true."
Anonymous, on Oct 8, 2009 wrote: Lost Highway has its moments, but I’ll be damned if anyone in the Arquette family ever learned to act.
Anonymous, on Oct 7, 2009 wrote: idea box, eh? not a bad idea.
Anonymous, on Oct 7, 2009 wrote: Lost Highway is one of his best
Anonymous, on Oct 5, 2009 wrote: The interviewers name is Jesse Pearson? Anyone with a name like that deserves to be abducted and never seen from again.
Anonymous, on Oct 2, 2009 wrote: i’m teaching my grandson magic.
Anonymous, on Sep 30, 2009 wrote: let’s rock.
Anonymous, on Sep 30, 2009 wrote: i hope his head doesn’t explode from all that nice german methamphetamine.
	factorygirlwarhol, on Sep 30, 2009 wrote: david lynch is a geriatric sex pot.
Anonymous, on Sep 29, 2009 wrote: heineken really is for pussies.
	tanger, on Sep 28, 2009 wrote: the shit at the end of blue velvet when the dead dude is still standing is one of my favorite scenes of all time.
Anonymous, on Sep 26, 2009 wrote: It is terrible how many sick person live in this world. They spread their ivo mind like a virus killing ideas that make the world much better. How many of the wow! they are daing, but their poison continue spread all around.
Anonymous, on Sep 26, 2009 wrote: yeah whatever but this dude sucks as an interviewer fuck you whoever you are because i dont want to scroll up and read your shitty name
Anonymous, on Sep 26, 2009 wrote: meditation is fucking simple. imagine something. scan it onto your forehead like a television screen. realize the image. then de-scan it the same way. (cigarettes not included.)
Anonymous, on Sep 26, 2009 wrote: good point, cosi, perhaps you can get as much out of a walk in the woods as a zen monk can get out of years of deep meditation. but i think you may have low expectations for what meditation can accomplish. the vedic tradition, buddhism, and all the great traditions of meditation prescribe practices and techniques that aim at going beyond ordinary waking consciousness, to experience "enlightenment," a higher state of consciousness where one’s awareness is unbounded, fully awakened, the state of maximum human comprehension. EEG research shows that TM creates alpha coherence and synchrony throughout all parts of the brain, corresponding with the state of "pure consciousness." it’s very different from the state one is usually in during a walk in the woods, which is ordinary waking state. the NIH has given $24 million for scientists to research the effects of TM on cardiovascular health and brain functioning. so many studies show the health benefits of TM, including lowering high blood pressure more significantly than any other mind-body practice. if your granny gets high blood pressure and doesn’t want to take a second medication (with it’s negative side effects), i suggest you look at the TM research before telling her to just take a walk in the woods.
	cosi, on Sep 26, 2009 wrote: there’s a simpler way to practice the meditation without spending thousands on a mantra. just take your mind for a walk, imagine a place that you find peaceful and take yourself there for 20 minutes. as with everything, it’s all in the head, not the bank balance. however the ’mantra’ thing does interest me & if i had that kind of money to throw around I’d like to find out what mine is, though I’m pretty sure you can just come up with one yourself.
Anonymous, on Sep 26, 2009 wrote: To "Hemlocksociety" below, who asks, "how to enter the [TM] program cheap without qualifying as a student," I suggest that you talk to a TM center about that. There are grants and scholarships available for people who can’t afford the full course fee. There are also low-interest student loans (even for non-students) from CitiBank. If a person is willing to pay the course fee, it means they appreciate TM and will more likely commit themselves to actually practicing it twice a day and following through, and thereby enjoy the full benefit. TM is non-profit, but there has to be a course fee to make the organization sustainable. My wife teaches TM (I practice it, too), and they always tell people that anyone who wants to learn should be able to learn and not be prevented by finances, so they will work with you to help you learn. There’s no other practice like it (I’ve tried them all.) It’s the real deal. If you can pay the full fee, it’s great, because all the money goes to help others learn. No one has ever made money off of TM. Ralph Nader said TM is one of the very few true non-profits in the U.S. Best of luck, Mac
Anonymous, on Sep 26, 2009 wrote: ’Glory Dog’ here. i appreciate lynch, TM, and the above interviewer’s unassuming, straightforward style. the ALL CAPS commenter below raised the assertion that TM teachers make you pay "thousands for a mantra" or for "a single therapy session." i might wonder about that too, if either statement were true. first, when you learn TM, you’re not just "buying a mantra." you’re taking a comprehensive course to learn effective meditation. the initial training averages 15 hours, if you take advantage of all the meetings and support (a seven-step course, and a few personal and follow-up meetings that are optional but recommended). the standard course fee is $1500, which comes to about $100 per hour (half that for students). but you also get free personal, one-on-one support and ongoing classes for the rest of your life in any TM center anywhere in the world. you think that’s expensive? it’s the best deal in the universe, especially considering what you get: a technique you will benefit from for the rest of your life. it’s not a "single therapy session" as ALL CAPS claims. and it’s way better than therapy, because the technique takes you to that place in yourself where you don’t need therapy -- your true, unbounded inner Self. and the longer you practice, the more you live that reality of freedom, creativity, and bliss in your daily life. TM is not like mindfulness, watching your breath or any other practice called meditation, and the scientific research on it distinguishes it’s effectiveness. it’s not a religion. anybody can do it because it’s easy and natural. it’s something i’ve found in my life that there’s absolutely NOTHING wrong with. no down side. all positive.
Anonymous, on Sep 26, 2009 wrote: a comb, a toothbrush, a picture of jesus.
Anonymous, on Sep 26, 2009 wrote: Why does everyone discredit The Straight Story thats one of the best films hes done?
	hemlocksociety, on Sep 25, 2009 wrote: I saw Lynch and his group of scientists explain the TM process when I was in college and was really into the idea. Now that I’ve graduated I’m a bit lost on how to enter a program for cheap without qualifying as a student.
Anonymous, on Sep 25, 2009 wrote: hey, capsy mccapserson, lay off on the fucking screaming
Anonymous, on Sep 25, 2009 wrote: When I see anything David Lynch-related all I can think of is that youtube video where he puts a fan’s panties in his mouth and then gets excited because they are still warm.
Anonymous, on Sep 25, 2009 wrote: OK MAYBE TM INSTRUCTORS DONT HAVE TO WORK FOR FREE BUT I WOULD ALSO ASSUME A FEW THOUSAND FOR A SINGLE THERAPY SESSION TO BE OUTRAGEOUSLY OVERPRICED AS WELL. FURTHERMORE, A PORTION OF THE FEE GOES TO THE ORGANIZATION WHICH IS CHARACTERIZED BY ITS FOLLOWERS AS ALTRUISTIC IN NATURE. IT STILL DOESNT ADD UP. ALL CAPS ARE FUN
Anonymous, on Sep 25, 2009 wrote: israel is a nation full of 3-year-old whiners. lots of ethnicities have been fucked over just as hard as the jews. there’s a time and place--this definitely isn’t it. shut the fuck up, please.
Anonymous, on Sep 25, 2009 wrote: you’re really going to use this as a platform to piss and moan about israel? take it elsewhere you whiny misinformed idiot. you only make your cause look irritating and creepy by pushing it in discussions where it isn’t wanted.
Anonymous, on Sep 25, 2009 wrote: Lynch is a typical shallow thinking left winger. What unites those of his ilk is that they don’t go into the history of anything, but simply take a situation as it is and say, "we need to fix it". Commendable but next to useless, and often worse. I just thought of Jane Fonda sitting next to gunners in Vietnam. Lynch looks and sees suffering Palestinians and says, "Israelis are causing the suffering, so we must help the Palestinians". He doesn’t for example, look at or care about statements that were made by Palestinian groups today, following Bibi’s speech to the UN yesterday. > "Netanyahu spoke of the Holocaust but Israel committed the largest massacre of the century". > > "Netanyahu’s demand that the Palestinians recognize Israel as a Jewish state is unacceptable" > > "Palestine has never been Jewish land". The above comments are in line with Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s denial of the Holocaust, and display an ignorance that is brought about by blinkered fanaticism. Who is Bibi supposed to talk to, and about what? How does Lynch want to help them? In short, he is a terrible advertisement for meditation. Mike
Anonymous, on Sep 25, 2009 wrote: when i saw the picture the first thing that popped into my head was "sure, looks easy enough. where do you want me to build it?" y’get it?????????????
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