NEWSLETTER

INTERVIEW AND PHOTOS BY WARD JOPPEN



The holy grail of technology is a device called the perpetuum mobile. It is, in theory, a machine that remains in constant motion, moving entirely on its own, and all the while amassing more energy than it uses. It is an endless source of power. And as it requires no natural resources for fuel, its creation would mark the end of conflicts in the Middle East, oil-driven politics in Ukraine, and poverty in sub-Saharan Africa. One thing, though: Modern science has unanimously decided such a machine can’t be made. This is because it doesn’t jibe with a scientific framework known as the laws of thermodynamics. Among other things, these guidelines maintain that surplus energy cannot be created. Of course, this has done nothing to deter centuries’ worth of dreamy-eyed humans. One such mobile enthusiast is Wessel di Wesseli, a 70-year-old Belgian who’s been hard at work on his own version since he was 12. To Wesseli, even your most advanced thermodynamic maxim is a “giant misconception and an instrument of the multinationals.” Some say he’s mad, and much of the academic elite despises him. I met him at a bar, where he taught me how his invention works and explained a few other secrets that science would rather we all ignored.

Vice: Hi.

Wessel Di Wesseli: How much is 1+1?

Two.

Are you dead?

Nope.

Well, how can one and one be two, as your parents conceived you? You’re a living person, aren’t you?

Yes.

What is energy, according to you?

How about this: What do you think energy is?

Scientists mostly come up with formulas, but formulas are an abstract language. They’re unable to catch the richness around them. Scholars also get confused very easily because they think within the limits of what they’ve been taught.

Help me understand.

There is, for instance, the giant delusion that warmth is a form of energy. I think it is not. I mean, a bicycle works with pressure on the pedals. And in a similar way a car works with pressure on the pistons.

So the misunderstanding is on a fundamental level?

During the industrial revolution people confused the pressure on the steam valves as energy through heat.

And you believe otherwise.

In fact, it’s the pressure that is the energy. The heat is just an intermediary factor. That’s why I think thermodynamics are rubbish.

Who could perpetrate such a fraud?

The science, or as I call it, the tyranny of thermodynamics, is controlled by the oil industries. And I suspect the scientists cooperate with them so they can be generously funded, just as they did in China in the 1920s.

They did? How?

They gave everyone oil lamps so the people were dependent on oil. Then they got rid of the alternatives.

That’s awful.

At the Brussels Car Exhibition in 1911, there was an electric car with a range of 50 miles. Yet we still use gas. How many plans were stolen or kept secret in the vaults of the multinationals? Why did they abandon the Citroën 2CV, a light and easy car?

I’ll assume you’re being rhetorical.

Why do we use two tons of steel today to transport 170-pound human beings?

All good questions. Do you have any answers?

It’s all just oilitics made possible by thermodynamics.

We’ve been duped?

We fall for it because cars get warm when we drive, even though you can drive on air pressure alone.

Are your objections to the laws of thermodynamics based on the fact that they obliterate the very idea of a perpetuum mobile?

Rebellion is healthy. Had Edison listened to his colleagues we wouldn’t have light bulbs. I’m not comparing myself to Edison or Copernicus, but I’m strongly against deciding something can’t be true without fully understanding it.

Nobody wants to be on the wrong side of history.

Even a smart guy like Leonardo da Vinci mistakenly concluded that a perpetuum mobile would never be invented, simply because he couldn’t build one. As a matter of fact, perpetua are all around us.

They are?

Newton, for instance, noticed the apple falling from the tree. The apple gradually turns into minerals that get picked up by the tree again. It’s a natural perpetuum mobile.

Can you harvest energy from that process?

Yes. We could tie threads to the apple and attach it to a little direct current generator. I understand this is a very slow process, but imagine if we used that technique on all apples, bananas, kiwis, and other fruits. That would create huge amounts of energy.

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Comments

Anonymous, on Sep 22, 2009 wrote: This guy is a fucking crack pot.
Anonymous, on Jun 16, 2009 wrote: Confusing was the bit about a large boat have less friction than a smaller boat, I suppose I just need more evidence.
Anonymous, on May 14, 2009 wrote: to the guy that said something about the heaviness of your car making you safe: the heavier/sturdier your car the less safe you are in it.
Anonymous, on May 13, 2009 wrote: oh man, check out that socratic method right there. he’s switched up the interview
Anonymous, on May 13, 2009 wrote: i think he still made a point about electric cars and shit
Anonymous, on May 13, 2009 wrote: He looks like Karl Marx, and sounds like him too, i.e. full of shit.
Anonymous, on May 12, 2009 wrote: it’s a good think i have people in the comments to tell me this guy is full of it because look at him - how could you not trust that face? i want to bake him a cake.
Anonymous, on May 12, 2009 wrote: I suppose what he means by the ’scale effect’ is that as an object gets larger, its surface area to volume ratio decreases, and he supposes, incorrectly, that this equates to less friction. WRONG! Frictional force depends on mass and the nature of the surfaces involved, NOT surface area. A crate that is slid on one of its planar surfaces will encounter the same amount of friction, no more or less, than if it was slid on one of its edges. This is just one of the many amazing and often counterintuitive things one learns when one bothers to read the findings of those who have gone before.
Anonymous, on May 10, 2009 wrote: "The bigger we make the machine the less friction we have." Would that be the famous ’scale effect’? Fool. Does the Vice interviewer fail to challenge this guano because it’s unseemly to beat up on an old fart or because he’s ignorant of basic physics? Some of his poetry is not bad, though- tying strings to kiwis and bananas? Perhaps half an hour with a pimply 18-year-old physics student of even middling intelligence would’ve saved this guy years of futility. First up, Pops- an explanation of the relationship between potential energy and kinetic energy. Purposely ignoring the thoughts and experiments of those who have investigated the same phenomena that you are interested in is an excellent m.o. It allows you to believe you are an innovator, a pioneer, or even a rebel. Now, how many kiwis do we need to feed the peons who are to scale the trees to tie strings to the imminently falling fruits?
Anonymous, on May 8, 2009 wrote: since when is anybody supposed to take ANYTHING written in Vice seriously? I thought the article was fun. The guy is clearly crazy, and that made it all the more more enjoyable to read.
Anonymous, on May 8, 2009 wrote: OK I get where you are coming from with the whole approach you take to stuff at vice, and on the whole you are awesome, funny, irreverent and when you want to, very serious and intelligent; but several of the articles in this issue are a joke, this one included. Whoever selects the interviews does not have the know how necessary to distinguish between informed experts and idiots who claim to be experts. The robot guy knew what he was on about (in the future is bullshit), this guy does not. Thermodynamics have been comprehnsively proved over and over again endlessly, how would your fridge, car, plane, phone , computer or almost nay other modern device work without thermodynamics? There are hundreds of years of incremental advances built on top of each other to create an insurmountable block of evidence. He can go on as much as he likes, but modern scientific theory has nailed thermodynamics (at least above a certain scale, things can get pretty freaky on a quantum level). Vice needs to sort its shit out with the science and tech stuff, because it is a little embarrassing to see people like this guy (or mr. singularity) taken seriously
	Robert Lauriston, on May 7, 2009 wrote: The apple that falls from the tree is releasing stored energy that originally came from solar power.
	bird is the word, on May 7, 2009 wrote: i thought he was gonna bust out with some binary shit when he asked what 1+1 was.
	joey carrera, on May 7, 2009 wrote: wait, who’s giving the interview..
	aWopBop, on May 6, 2009 wrote: Yeah, there’s Vice, cracking that great big conspiracy. Investigative journalism at its finest, beats even High Times.WooHoo!
Anonymous, on May 6, 2009 wrote: "...the tyranny of thermodynamics..." I love this guy. I wish I could have taken him to my Thermo I class or better yet Thermo III - Heat Transfer and Mass Flow.
	superfunk, on May 6, 2009 wrote: Where ma pills!
Anonymous, on May 6, 2009 wrote: This guy needs to spend some time in engineering school before he starts pooping on it. Those formulas don’t come from some scientists asshole, they come from years of experimentation and observation. He’s just pissed he can’t figure out what the physics world is talking about. People only listen to him cause he’s old. If he was 25 he’d just get his ass kicked a lot.
Anonymous, on May 6, 2009 wrote: His example of a tree being a perpetual motion machine is balls out retarded. The tree turns sunlight into usable fuel (glucose) which is then used to power the processes which create the apple at a certain height. A tree without the sun could not bring an apple up high enough to hit Newton in the head. Also pv = nrt (pressure is proportional to temperature at constant volume)
Anonymous, on May 6, 2009 wrote: the fact that this guy thinks that scientists and engineers don’t know that pressure is potential energy is enough to discredit his entire arguement
	dingo dick, on May 6, 2009 wrote: last i checked we are all living on a perpetual motion machine, so it’s not impossible. you might just have to be god to build it.
Anonymous, on May 6, 2009 wrote: I’m all for it if he can do it, I just don’t think he can. Let’s put this in action and see if it works. But... don’t you think that if any companies thought there was even a shot in the dark of it working they would have funded it? Think of how rich you’d be with a patent on a perpetual motion machine!
Anonymous, on May 6, 2009 wrote: This is the most depressing page of comments I’ve ever read on VICE, and that’s a tall order. Fuck all you naysayers.
Anonymous, on May 6, 2009 wrote: to "if thermodynamics is rubbish how does my refrigerator work?" & friends: you can sneer & hate all you want, but you prove his central point repeatedly. namely, that form & function need not be collapsed under one heading (in this case the heading of thermodynamics). there are countless possibilities and combinations of principles and results in engineering, many of which we ignore because they differ from our default (prescribed) understanding of how things work. It’s a big world, and your refrigerators and safe cars don’t explain it all away. byebye
Anonymous, on May 6, 2009 wrote: if thermodynamics is rubbish how does my refrigerator work?
Anonymous, on May 6, 2009 wrote: I actually own a perpetual motion device. Incidentally, would anyone like to buy some land?
	rabies babies, on May 6, 2009 wrote: god bless him if this works but it’s arrogant to put yourself in the same leage as archimedes and newton. i’d like to see some proof of this invention. i’m putting the odds at somewhere around one gazillion to one.
Anonymous, on May 6, 2009 wrote: wow you can tell that this guy doesnt take any shit, straight off the bat he is all over the interviewer. not seen anyone do that in an interview for ages.
Anonymous, on May 6, 2009 wrote: sorry but i have to point out this part of the interview: Did you study physics or engineering in college? School is rather unimportant. They teach you stuff that you just have to absorb thoughtlessly. I was lucky to have a kidney problem at the age of nine. this guy is obviously crazy as a loon. no wonder he has trouble finding funds for his contraption.
	hooohaaa, on May 6, 2009 wrote: I can almost smell the conspiracy theories of this guy.
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