NEWSLETTER

AN EXPERT ON TURKMENISTAN AND ITS LATE PRESIDENT FOR LIFE, SAPARMURAT NIYAZOV, THE TURKMENBASHI

INTERVIEW BY TIM SMALL, PHOTOS BY NICOLAS RIGHETTI


Vice: So, you’re something of an expert on dictators, huh?

Nicolas Righetti: Well, I guess you could say that. But it’s a bit pretentious.

Well then let’s just say that you’re a smart photojournalist who just came back from Turkmenistan and you’ve traveled a few times to North Korea. Would you say the dictatorships in these two countries are similar?

They work on different rhythms. They might look similar to external viewers because, for instance, they both seem to be perpetually at war—even if they actually aren’t.

You mean that they make their citizens believe they are at war.

They want to appear to be at war with this constant enemy that is just waiting to enter the country and overthrow the government. Turkmenistan and North Korea also share the use of fear, the fear of the enemy and the fear of the external world, to keep their population in check, as well as the cult of personality. But the North Koreans traveled much farther in their journey to shape the “new man.” I think the North Koreans are the ones who have done the most in this field, much more than people like Castro or Khomeini. When you arrive there, you realize that it’s not just the posters and the statues, it’s that the people are completely prisoners of this collective folly, and when you step out of the capital in North Korea, you realize that absolutely everything is North Korean. The food, the materials, the products, the images, everything seems to be made within those borders. It’s like even the people’s dreams are all set in North Korea.

Is the Turkmenistan situation less alienating?

The Turkmen dictatorship never had the degree of total control over their society that the Kim family has had in North Korea. Niyazov tried to stay in power and instill fear in his subjects. He also wrote a book, the Ruhnama, and everyone had to read it. If you even want to get a driver’s license you have to pass a test on the Ruhnama. Niyazov also claimed that he had struck a deal with God so that every person who read the Ruhnama three times would gain automatic entrance to heaven. Now, of course, this stuff is funny to us, but not so much for them. However, there’s still a semblance of lightness, compared to North Korea. It’s not like the country is entirely under the domination of Niyazov. People are a bit more human. They seem to be thinking with their own brains, and they aren’t entirely obliged to agree with the party at all times. It’s a slightly less heavy atmosphere to be in, at an intellectual and social level.

What about all the absurd things that Niyazov is famous for, like renaming the months of the year after himself and the members of his family? Do the Turkmen realize that these things are extremely hilarious?

I think the Turkmen are aware. I met various people who, after getting confident, are happy to say that they think their government exaggerates or makes mistakes. The people are still fearful, in general, and they don’t want to talk, but the people I got closer to, especially students and teachers, warned me to leave, told me that the situation was dangerous, that I should come back when their country was back to normal. So, clearly, they were aware.

So was Niyazov a beloved leader?

Yes. Niyazov was very smart, he played the game very well. He renamed himself “Turkmenbashi”—father of all Turkmen— and he tried to give off some good father vibes. What’s extremely interesting is that Niyazov himself lost both his parents when he was just a child, so he never really experienced the love of a father or a mother. In all his propaganda, he’s always smiling, like he wants to give love. And I think the people loved him back. Another interesting aspect of his government, something I had never seen before, is that the population loves him almost at the cost of hating all the other members of parliament and the ministers.

What do you mean?

Niyazov would publicly criticize his officials and ministers even when no journalists were allowed to, so his lonely voice speaking against corruption and incompetence made him a sort of populist hero. I saw three televised mock “trials,” where Niyazov would appear on TV with his other ministers, and he would accuse them, “Did you steal the government’s money?” And, for example, the education minister would lower his head and say, “Yes, I stole $3 million from the Turkmenbashi, I am sorry,” and Niyazov would be angry, and then he would laugh and, adopting a fatherly, jokey tone, he would say, “Were you going to split it 50-50 with me?” He would almost forgive them, because they were clueless. And thus, he was able to say, “Yes, my people, you are poor, but it’s only because I am surrounded by morons and thieves.” Niyazov had to do so, because the government couldn’t cover up the wealth of their natural resources, so the people were constantly wondering why they didn’t see any of this money.

Were these ministers punished?

They would be thrown in jail for, say, an eight-year sentence, but after one year, Niyazov would grant a general amnesty because the jails were full, and the ministers would reappear in government. It was all theater.

What about his insane public projects, like the giant gold statue of himself that rotates on its axis, following the sun? Didn’t the people want to tear it down and piss on it?

Not exactly. The country’s borders were always closed to the West. There was the Afghan war, and before that, there was the Soviet Union. So for them, the “dream” is Moscow, or even Kazakhstan. Kazakhstan is like New York City for them. Most of those people didn’t even know where Europe was. So this folly, for them, is normal. They have very little ability to come up with alternatives, because almost all they know is a dictatorship surrounded by other dictatorships.

Turkmenistan is an Islamic country, and I read that Niyazov claimed he was a “direct descendant of Muhammad” to gain legitimacy. I imagine the Turkmen imams might have had something to say about that.

He also claimed he was the Thirteenth Prophet of Islam. But the intelligence of this man was to always act as a victim of circumstance and love. He would say things like, “I don’t want these things, the people want them. I don’t want to be the Thirteenth Prophet, but my people have asked me to become him.” He famously said that his people loved him so much he couldn’t sleep at night. Also, whenever the imams complained—like when he ordered them to place the Ruhnama next to the Koran—he would just demolish a few mosques.

Tell me about this hilarious picture you took of the giant poster of Niyazov portrayed as he checks his watch.

It’s right in the center of the capital, Ashkabat, the place he built out of his own architectural ideas. I pointed at this giant poster of him checking his watch, and my guide said, “That’s a Rolex our leader has.” I was shocked, “Why would he have a poster of him checking his watch?” He replied, “Our leader is like us. We check our watches. So does our leader. We are the same.” Obviously, I didn’t see anybody with a Rolex, but the idea is brilliant. It’s his communist heritage, his idea to show himself as a man of the people.

Is it true that non-Turkmen have to pay $50,000 if they want to marry a Turkmen woman?

Yes. Basically, Turkmen women are very beautiful and the Ruhnama espouses a philosophy of youth. It says that women and men should get married very young, and, because many young men and women are trying to get out of the country, Niyazov stated that every foreigner who wanted to take a Turkmen woman as a bride and move her out of the country had to pay $50,000.

Didn’t he also claim that Turkmen invented the wheel?

Yeah, it’s great. It’s all in the Ruhnama. The book is amazing. It’s a way better read than Mao’s Red Book, or Gaddafi’s Green Book, or the books by Kim Jong-Il. It’s a bit monothematic, but it’s great. Basically, he claims that Turkmen invented the wheel. And roads. And cars. He also claims that he descended directly from Jesus and at the same time from Muhammad.

Was it hard to get into Turkmenistan?

I have a friend who works with the Swiss tourist agency, so I managed to get him to write a letter where I was described as an official photographer for Swiss tourism, who had been commissioned to photograph and survey all of Turkmenistan’s hotels. It was great, I had a car and a driver, all paid for by the Turkmen government. I spent all my days going from one hotel to the other.

Are they nice hotels?

Ashkabat is an incredible city, and they built loads of great hotels. There are some tourists, a few Iranians, Russians, Turks, but nothing major. Niyazov built too many hotels. Way too many. I think 500 times more than what was necessary.

Did they know what to make of you?

I’m Swiss and blond, so they thought I was Russian. I tried explaining I was Swiss, but they didn’t know what that meant or where it is.


Love Me, Turkmenistan by Nicolas Righetti is out now from Trolley Books (trolleybooks.com).

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